[00:03:04] Patrick Donley: So talk to us a little bit more about your educational background. So growing up, what did you do right out of at a school?

[00:03:10] Patrick Donley: What kind of career path did you pursue?

[00:03:13] Dave: So I’ve always been, I’ve always played a lot of sports and that was really kind of my passion growing up. I was always very sort of entrepreneurial. So there was a, a sort of program within all the schools in England called Young Enterprise. And you create a company, you sell the product, and you kind of go through all the ways of doing it.

[00:03:29] Dave: And I was always involved in things like that. But really I was very much a kind of student athlete. I played rugby to, to quite a good standard as well as a bit of basketball and pretty much anything else that was going really. I very much sort of followed through school, went through university and did a sports science degree with that as well.

[00:03:47] Dave: And then, yeah, like I said, I, I ended up, after university, I was student president for a year at my, at my university, university of Worcester. Which for any American listeners is where they make the source that no one can say, which is usually quite a good sort of educational piece for me.

[00:04:02] Dave: Then yeah, I, I got a job over for the summers over in West Virginia at a summer camp, which is something that anyone who knows me knows that some I’m really passionate about and it’s not, not really a thing here in England. There aren’t really residential summer camps or, or anything like that.

[00:04:16] Dave: Kind day camps happen, but it’s certainly not built in the culture like it is over in the States. So we went over there to West Virginia. Obviously it was my first ever time in the States, so, you know, it was a bit of a skewed view of what, what kind of American looks like really. I saw everything was a bit like a forest.

[00:04:31] Dave: Went over there. I was did a bit of soccer in instructing. Did a bit of like ropes and, and a really a bit of boat driving and stuff like that, which is where I sort of got so much of an interest in the way thingss work kind of over, over in America. Really.

[00:04:44] Patrick Donley: Dave, I’ve gotta ask, how do you pronounce the sauce?

[00:04:48] Dave: So, right, okay, it’s not as complicated as what people think. It’s just a couple of syllables, so it’s. Worcestershire okay. That it, I know there’s a lot of Worcestershire things when people say it, but just Worcestershire, that’s it. Okay.

[00:05:03] Patrick Donley: That’s good to know. I, I’ve always struggled with it, frankly.

[00:05:06] Dave: Okay. Always a good conversation piece.

[00:05:08] Patrick Donley: Yeah, definitely, definitely. So you went to university there and what, how long ago did you graduate? How, how long have you been at a,

[00:05:14] Dave: at a school? So I graduated in 2003 and then I went back to do my teacher training for for a year, which is called APGCE and learned how to, I already did a lot within sports, a lot of coaching and things like that, but I had to do a year where they kind of teacher to be a teacher.

[00:05:33] Patrick Donley: So I wanted to ask you like when the ideas of financial independence, if I first kind of grabbed hold of you and who were some of your early influences? I, I know for me there was a book called Your Money or Your Life, which made a really big impact on me. And then there was another guy, I think a lot of people have heard of Mr.

[00:05:48] Patrick Donley: Money Mustache and I was reading him like the early days of his blog. How did you first get turned onto financial independence and start thinking about it and who are the influences?

[00:05:58] Dave: So it’s really, it’s really difficult for me to sort of pinpoint where it came from really. I think it’s certainly book-wise and sort of, you know, reading and things.

[00:06:06] Dave: It was I, I got a lot of inspiration by reading about people kind of autobiographies more than kind of the almost self-help books I read quite young. The Richard Branch and losing my virginity book and obviously being a, a Brit as well. He’s from quite sort of humble beginnings. I found that really interest.

[00:06:22] Dave: And then really the randomly the, I go back to it, like the, the guy that owned the summer camp I worked at was a Scottish guy and he had made a lot of money in, in New York and, and he’d then come out and bought summer camp and he bought a number of summer camps and was just a really relatable guy and was just a really, you know, became really good friends.

[00:06:40] Dave: And even though he doesn’t probably even know it, just sort of speaking to him a lot and his kind of aptitude to money and his aptitude to almost abundance in the way of not setting limits on yourself, which I think was something growing up kind of how I grew up and what I grew up in, it was always a case of just getting a job, like being a teacher that’s, that’s enough.

[00:07:00] Dave: Like that’s util your mid sixties, you know, whereas actually almost being exposed to literature and then being exposed to actually meeting real regular people who have done really well. That kind of showed me that, you know, there is a higher ceiling on finances and sort of independence and actually signing yourself up at 25 to work for the next 40 years.

[00:07:22] Dave: You know, it isn’t necessarily the only route to go down. So I, I’d say that those were quite big influences on me. Really.

[00:07:28] Patrick Donley: That gentleman did own the camps. How did he make his initial money? Was it through real estate by any chance?

[00:07:34] Dave: I, I think, no, I think he was actually just really entrepreneurial. I think he was, did some, some really good investments and just, you know, did, did we’ll work through that really, and sort of generated enough to get into the, the summer camp game and then just was just a great people person and did well from that, you know, and a great businessman.

[00:07:52] Patrick Donley: So he and Richard Branson were two early influences. Any other books or anything that you read that was like, this is what I want to go after?

[00:08:00] Dave: Yeah, I think I, I’d say more kind of, kind of as far as as books go you know, obviously like a lot of people I read, like Rich Dad, poor Dad, I read like some Warren Buffet books and sort of looked at things in which that, and which in a lot of time was just showing me certainly from a very working class background, how there was a way to think about money differently.

[00:08:19] Dave: And I think that was, between that and then meeting real people and reading real case studies and, and things like that was really where kind of the, the light switch went on. And it just kind of made me think, well, you know, if, if I am a teacher forever, I’m always going to be at a certain spot and I’m going to maybe work to a point where I can’t do a lot of the things I want to do when, when I’m still sort of able to.

[00:08:42] Dave: So, so all of that putting together and then finding real estate was really kind of what made the big change within me.

[00:08:49] Patrick Donley: I think You had mentioned you did a entrepreneurial program in high school. Had you always kind of, as a kid, did you have like entrepreneurial side hustles at all?

[00:08:58] Dave: Yeah, I think so. I mean, this one, I, I randomly, and it seems really silly now because now I’m a teacher.

[00:09:05] Dave: Looking back I was like 16 and organizing day trips for groups of people and families and things to go to theme parks and stuff, and like booking buses and looking at cutting deals with group discounts and then selling those and stuff like that, you know, whereas a lot of people, you know, in the same thing like make candles or something and sell them all to parents and Christmas cause they guild them into it.

[00:09:27] Dave: yeah, it was very, it was very much, I certainly was already looking at the fact that even though people did a certain thing before, I could make a lot more money by having a bigger scale of what I put out and do something that kind of hadn’t normally been done. And then looked at doing two of them and three of them and, and actually it, you know, it, it turned out to be really good as far as kind of that program.

[00:09:49] Patrick Donley: Was it a program, was it a competition where you, like your business is competing against other students and there’s kinda like an evaluation process of who’s got the best idea? Who implemented it the best?

[00:10:00] Dave: Yeah, I mean now, I mean I work at a, a great school and when we, it is a competition now and you can go and compare your sort of balance sheets and, you know, present kind of almost you know, shark Tank style of, of what you do and stuff like that.

[00:10:12] Dave: Whereas back then it was just a case of I think just something within your school that you did. So I didn’t have the competitive development that I’d probably have quite enjoyed.

[00:10:20] Patrick Donley: So now you are, you said you’re an assistant principal at like a high school, the equivalent of a high school?

[00:10:27] Dave: That’s right.

[00:10:27] Dave: Yeah. So I mean, it’s called secondary school over here, but yeah, it’s a high school. Yeah, I’m an assistant principal, which like a vice principal really like you know, in the sort of behind the principal, like the next group of people that kinda help run day to day.

[00:10:38] Patrick Donley: So in your school, I’m interested, do you guys teach any kind of financial literacy to the students?

[00:10:44] Dave: Yeah, they do. And it’s something that I, I feel quite strongly about obviously cuz I do what I do. But you know, I, I kind of stick up for schools a little bit on, on money Twitter quite a bit it seems as, you know, there’s always a certain buzz tweaks that get a lot of engagement and a lot of people kind of joining in and, you know, people like to go in on education quite a lot for not really providing it.

[00:11:04] Dave: But no, we, we do, there’s, there’s certain things for all schools in England that they need to go through now. They’re not necessarily the kind of principles of financial independence, but there’s, you know, there’s very much about how to manage your money, you know, and about how to be more kind of sensible with it going forward, really.

[00:11:21] Dave: I mean, I, I work in a city, so there’s quite a few challenges sort of financially for a lot of people. So, you know, a lot certain things of, of how to invest and stuff is maybe a bit beyond where we’re at right now, but it, it’s certainly, you know, about how to be more sensible with things like budgeting and about how to, you know, make your money go further and how not necessarily the way that you hear at home is always the way to work.

[00:11:43] Patrick Donley: Do you talk about any of your real estate endeavors with your coworkers and what you’re up to and your future plans, which we’ll get into your future plans?

[00:11:52] Dave: No, it’s, it’s really, it’s I think it’s kind of like just my thing. I mean, my, my job here is very different and it’s, you know, I have to do a lot that has nothing to do with that kind of thing.

[00:12:02] Dave: So I, I very much kind of keep it to myself. If anyone asks, I’m happy to talk to ’em about it. And I’ve certainly given a few people sort of a bit of advice as far as like, you know, mortgage loans and things like that go and about how to sort of negotiate a deal and things when they found out what I do and then come to me with a question.

[00:12:19] Dave: But I, I’m, I’m very, I don’t really push it on anybody.

[00:12:22] Patrick Donley: But people do come to you like you’re kind of the real estate day at school, and if they’ve got questions, they, they will turn to you. Sometimes.

[00:12:28] Dave: Sometimes it’s, it’s more almost kind of friend group, you know, I, my friend groups and stuff more so know what I do, but yeah, I, I, I don’t, I don’t push it here very big.

[00:12:36] Dave: But yeah, the, the odd person who finds out what I’m up to, I mean, I don’t think anyone knows. I deem do the Twitter page where I work. So it’s yeah, it’s just, it’s kind of a very separate thing for me, you know, it’s, I, I really enjoy doing that and it’s yeah, very separate to my day-today.

[00:12:50] Patrick Donley: Well, you’ve put out some great content.

[00:12:51] Patrick Donley: That’s how I found you. So, and we’ll, we’ll get into that here shortly, but I wanted to get in to first how you got the real estate bug. When did that develop and what were some of your first steps early on?

[00:13:02] Dave: Yeah, so, so for me it was very much, it was something I’ve always been interested in. Although my career for a while was very much, well, it was always sport based, and I took that quite seriously and then made a career out it later.

[00:13:12] Dave: So that kind of kept me pretty busy. But as far as real estate went, I, I always had a, a aim to own, own a house myself. You know, I think it’s really quite a traditional kind of aim that gets sort of passed down to us that if you own a house, you’ve been successful and you’ve done well. But when I, when I bought my house, I was 30 years old, which was 11, 12 years ago now.

[00:13:32] Dave: And, and I always had one eye on the fact that this would make a great investment property. I was single at the time and I was sharing a house with three friends and I was, I was, I lease was coming up on our rental that we had and I’d managed to save a bit of money and I sort of had that conversation of, you know, well, if I bought a place, would the three of you rent the other three bedrooms off?

[00:13:52] Dave: Which they’re all really happy to do so, so worked really well for me. I, I knew it was close to the university that we all went to a few years prior to that. And at the time it just sort of made sense in my head that it was a great investment for me. Cause if nothing else, I’ve got a house that was in an area right on kind of the edge of a traditional campus so that it could easily be converted into a student rental later.

[00:14:14] Dave: But it would also be a, a good family home and would be a sort of good place for us to live for a, for a few years until we all kind of moved on with our life a little bit. So I kind of got into that. I sort of house hacked before I had an idea what house hacking was. You know, it’s only in the last few years I’ve learned that was even a thing.

[00:14:30] Dave: But I sort of stumbled into it and just obviously found that to be really profitable. Between them, they kinda covered the mortgage, the mortgage loan, and, you know, it meant that I could put a bit more money away. I could travel a lot, which, you know, I’ve not always been. Like I speak to a lot of younger people.

[00:14:46] Dave: You know, I, it’s great that you’re wanting to buy more, buy more, buy more when you’re like 25. But actually I’ve always been big into traveling and seeing the world. So the early days of house hacking really funded that for me and meant I could go on sort of great vacations and see great places. But eventually that money then went kind of, you know, I got grounded a little bit more.

[00:15:05] Dave: It meant that I could sort of move on to the next houses. And it was a real great blueprint for me making a load of mistakes on a smaller scale. It enabled me, like most house hackers to be in that house and really find out, you know, whatever little bit that was wrong with it. You know, really know how to make, how to fix things and how to, you know every bit that was great with the house.

[00:15:27] Dave: You can sort of promote that when you looking to sell it later on.

[00:15:30] Patrick Donley: So before you bought it, did you do a bunch of research on real estate? Were you thinking about your real estate plan at that point? Or, or was it just like, I’m, I want to own a home and you just went for it?

[00:15:42] Dave: Couple of things. So I was the year after I finished university, I was elected to be the student president, which was like a full-time job.

[00:15:48] Dave: And it basically meant you were kind of the link between the students and the university. You sat on a lot of like boards, you know, in a lot of meetings and got to meet a lot of people. And part of that was like student housing, which was you know, a real, as anyone, you know, is a big part of any student experience really.

[00:16:04] Dave: As part of that, I got to be in on a load of the student housing board meetings, and I also got to be in a lot of discrepancy meetings as well. So I was almost like, you know, someone who went in with a student, if there was a landlord, you know, issue a landlord problem or there was a dispute and I’d kind of go in as a bit of a mediator to try and sort of figure things out.

[00:16:23] Dave: At the time I was like 22 years old, so I, I knew nothing, you know, I just kind of went in and tried to do my best to just sort of being a reasonable human being, but it just meant that I got to see like the other side of things quite a lot and it kind of taught me one thing that was the, the bar was very low to be.

[00:16:38] Dave: A good landlord and, and actually to provide a decent product and to just answer your phone and just be a decent human being, actually kind of put you in the top 10% amongst a lot of student landlords. The byproduct of it was also that I found out, not that it was, you know, it was public knowledge, but I found out that there was about to be a huge expansion of the university in the next like 10 years.

[00:17:01] Dave: So, you know, that sort of clicked for me. While there’s always going to be people who want to live around here, it’s a really nice city. So it just, it just made sense on all French really.

[00:17:10] Patrick Donley: So that first home, you bought it close to campus, you had three friends that moved in with you. Did you guys have to do any work on the house or was it ready to get moved in as soon as you bought it?

[00:17:20] Dave: No, it was good to go. It was it was, you know, a basic house. It was but it was, it was all done nicely. I think it had come from a couple that had renovated the house to a decent standard and then they, they had split up, so the house went on the market. They were looking for someone to just move quick.

[00:17:37] Dave: One of the things that I had really going for me is that I had no chain. Cause it was my first house. I didn’t have a lot going on. So I could answer the phone, I could push things along, I could get my paperwork back within that day. Cause it was still always, you know, mailed paperwork at that point. So yeah, I just, I just made myself a really attractive buyer to them and it meant that I had somewhere moving ready.

[00:17:59] Patrick Donley: And you were in education at that point, point? Correct. Were you a teacher at that point or were you I was. Okay. So you’re on a teacher’s salary, you got financing from a local bank? Or how did you go about getting the funding?

[00:18:12] Dave: National Bank. Yeah. No, I mean, I think cuz England’s so small, like, we don’t, we don’t have, there are banks with kind of local names, but they’re usually national banks.

[00:18:21] Dave: So I, yeah, I, I got a a mortgage quite early, like a mortgage loan. I had, I think my first deposit was 14,000 pounds, which was probably sort of, Six years worth of saving take away kind of the you know, like I said, a fairly sizable traveling pot of money. But, you know, it was all my savings went into it.

[00:18:40] Dave: I didn’t really think about what else I’d need to pay for. I sort of chucked every penny into buying the place and sort of put, I’d say quite a lot of, sort of sweat equity into it. Early, early days. But yeah, just got place going. You know, we, we, we’d come from quite a poor landlord, so I think all four of us had fairly low expectations.

[00:18:58] Dave: And the fact that the place was, you know, newly carpeted, the walls were painted, everything works, the water was warm, the heating worked. We were pretty happy.

[00:19:08] Patrick Donley: Did that change your relationship with your friends, being now your landlord Dave and the owner of the house?

[00:19:14] Dave: No, not really. I mean, we had a few jokes about it at the time.

[00:19:16] Dave: But I think for all of them, they were kind of all in a sort of transition point where they’d finish university, like what a lot of people do, they hang around that city for a few years. Two of the three have since like moved right away. Again, back to like, you know, where they were from. But I think all of them, it was just a case of it’s, you know, it was the, the landlord experience at the time before people who had finished university was almost even more difficult than students.

[00:19:39] Dave: Cause there’s such a market set up for what a student landlord is and what they do. And it’s a year by year saying, but actually that very young professional without much, you know, wage documentation and things like that, you know, that can be a difficult sell at any point. You know, get a good place.

[00:19:55] Dave: So I think, you know, the agreement worked out for all of us. Like I charged them way below what a market value rent was, but it was enough to still cover me and mean for that first year or two. You know, I put every penny back into that house, you know, and made some good upgrades with the idea that, you know, I’d, I’d be renting it out later on.

[00:20:14] Patrick Donley: Were you able to essentially live for free? Did they cover your, all of your costs?

[00:20:20] Dave: Yeah, pretty much. I’d say. I’d say it was, like I said, it was. In my sense, my, my money was still coming out of my bank, but it was sort of upgrading our windows and stuff to make sure that we had a better house to live in. So I felt like I was kind of doing my bit, but obviously those are rewards that I reap later on when the house is valued higher and I can rent it out without doing those, those renovations later.

[00:20:40] Dave: But I was still putting my money into the house, but they were certainly covering, covering the loan and most of the bills, I think.

[00:20:47] Patrick Donley: So you were doing a house hack really, without really knowing it. But it’s, it’s certainly become a really popular strategy. Actually, my, the co-host of Real Estate 101 Robert Leonard, he’s got a book called The Everything Guide to House Hacking that’s come out.

[00:21:01] Patrick Donley: It came out last summer or this past summer. Okay. And it’s, it’s a great book for, it’s a great resource for people that are thinking about house, house hacking and the different strategies. Is that something you continued to do once those guys moved out? Or tell me the next step after your first house hack.

[00:21:17] Dave: The next step after that was that I met my girlfriend, which is now my wife. She also had a house she had bought, you know, was buying a house as well that was in a slightly kind of more sort of family friendly, friendly part of town. So we decided after a little while that we’d move into that house and then turned, and all the, all the guys I live with all decided they were going their separate ways and moving home or, you know, moving in with partners and stuff as well.

[00:21:44] Dave: So I moved in, moved in with, with my now wife into her house and then set my orig, original house hack off as a, as a student. So really started to explore that market, which was the only real rental market that I kind of had any experience with. Cuz I’d sat as at this like student president mediator and I’d been a student renter myself for a few years beforehand.

[00:22:08] Dave: So, yeah, that was the next step really, to turn that into a pure rental house and just leave it alone.

[00:22:14] Patrick Donley: And that house had four bedrooms, is that correct?

[00:22:17] Dave: Yeah, he basically had three bedrooms, but then it had two. The general way that the student houses work here, you know, our houses are generally pretty much smaller anyway, but your two reception rooms like downstairs, you have your living room, your two kind of living rooms, like one of those was converted into a bedroom as well.

[00:22:33] Dave: So the students had a big kitchen in, they had a living room with, you know, TV and, and couches in, and then the other room that would’ve been traditional, like a dining room, I guess that turned into a bedroom as well.

[00:22:44] Patrick Donley: So were you running them out by the room or did you rent out the entire house to them?

[00:22:49] Dave: So it was always by the room, but only to a group of four. Like, I learned quite quickly that it gets really difficult if you do, although I still did individual contracts, renting to a group was much better because even though, you know, it’s, it’s possible to find singles of, of students who want to move in just to anywhere.

[00:23:08] Dave: I think it always puts a bit of tension on it and you end up dealing with a lot of those. You know, more sort of domestic issues when they might not get on or, you know, someone’s a real study person, someone’s a real party animal and it doesn’t always mix together. So I’ve always only rented to a group of four for that house.

[00:23:27] Dave: But it’s always been a you know a group of friends.

[00:23:31] Patrick Donley: And is that something that’s still in your portfolio?

[00:23:34] Dave: Yeah, that’s still house number one. It’s still my most profitable house. It’s the one that takes up the most of my time. Cuz like I said, you know, every year or two I have a churn of people.

[00:23:44] Dave: So, and in essence, they’re, you know, a lot of the time they’re 18, 19 years old and they’re learning to live in a house for the first time. So, you know, you always have a few of the same call out problems. So, you know, I’ve been around a few times to what’s turned out to be, to change light bulbs, to like f flick a click a switch and things like that.

[00:24:02] Dave: But, you know, it’s, I only invest in the, the city I live in, so it’s. You know, a 20 minute drive for me, it’s not, it’s not that bad really.

[00:24:12] Patrick Donley: And do you do as many of the maintenance calls as you can or do you try, do you farm any of that out?

[00:24:18] Dave: Well, I’m self-admittedly, I’m useless at most sort of skills, like maintenance skills.

[00:24:25] Dave: I can, I’m pretty tall, so I’m good at painting quite high and I’m quite good at carrying things, but that’s kind of where my skillset ends. I’ve turned my hand to the odd bit of stuff before, but, you know, I’m, I’m in awe of some of the you know, DIY house hackers that I saw speak to a lot on Twitter.

[00:24:41] Dave: You know, they really get stuck in with egging, but I’ve never been good at it. I’ve been lucky enough that my network has allowed me to have a few, usually always friends or connections that I’ve been able to bring in to do everything. I go and like, you know, cut the lawn a few times in the summer and keep the place nice.

[00:24:58] Dave: And I do a bit of like weeding and a bit of, you know, like I said, painting in the month off season. If it’s the year where people move out, But you know, I, I’m good. I think one of my strengths is that I know what I’m useless at, so I’m good at you know, farming that out and, and getting decent people in.

[00:25:15] Patrick Donley: It helps to know the lane that you’re supposed to be in.

[00:25:17] Dave: Absolutely, absolutely.

[00:25:20] Patrick Donley: So you moved in with your wife, you’re married now. At what stage is she on board with this whole financial independence idea and building a real estate portfolio?

[00:25:30] Dave: Well, yes, luckily she’s not kind of that way, sort of inclined in that she has the same kind of thoughts to it and is active in it.

[00:25:39] Dave: But she’s fully supportive of me doing it. So, you know, she sort of says, okay, that’s, you know, your money, what are you going to do with it? You know, although it is our money, but it’s a case of, yeah, we’re going to reinvest it. This is the best thing we can do. And, you know, I talked to her about, This will work and why I think this is a good idea.

[00:25:56] Dave: And you know, although it’s not kinda her bag, it’s very much she’s, she backs me in doing it, which is, which I’m really lucky to have. It’s huge.

[00:26:06] Patrick Donley: I think you need it from a partner to do it well.

[00:26:09] Dave: Absolutely. Absolutely. I need to know she’s a college lecturer as well, you know, so she’s involved in the same kind of, sort of w tunes me.

[00:26:18] Dave: But she’s still very into that, you know? And as much as, you know, my W2 gets my full attention all day and, you know, I always joke that, you know, my nine to five is, is teaching and my, you know, five to nine is, is real estate. Although it usually goes way beyond nine o’clock. You know, she’s all in on that lecturing still, you know, and is researching all the time and doing stuff like that.

[00:26:39] Dave: So, you know, we’re both doing what we want to do, which I think is a really, and supporting each other on that, which is the important.

[00:26:45] Patrick Donley: Talk to us more about your five to nine as you, as you called it. How much time are you spending managing the properties? And you’ve got, talk to us also about your current portfolio.

[00:26:54] Patrick Donley: You’ve got five at the moment.

[00:26:56] Dave: Yep, that’s right. Yeah, I’m at my home as well. So, you know, that with, you know, two young children firing about a home, you know, things seem to break more there than any chaotic student house that I’ve got. But yeah, I, I mean yeah, so my portfolio consists of one student house one apartment and the rest, which is kind of what I’ve become more sort of familiar with when talking to people and, and, you know, really advising investors and people is like a small house in England, which is known here as a two up, two down, like two bedrooms, you know, one living area and a big kinda kitchen diner.

[00:27:29] Dave: And, and that has been my last few houses that I’ve bought. And certainly what I’m looking to continue with. Cause I feel like that’s the bit that I’ve kind got nailed on. Now I’ve kind of, you know, I, I got an apartment because at the time, That was where my funds could stretch to, and I thought an apartment post to the city center would be a really good addition to my portfolio.

[00:27:51] Dave: But since doing that, there’s a lot of things about the apartment that I, I don’t really enjoy. So I, I switched back to houses. And, and that’s, that’s where I’m, I’m going to go from here on

[00:28:00] Patrick Donley: four, is the apartment something you consider selling? And then I also had the question of does England have anything like a 10 31 exchange?

[00:28:09] Dave: Yeah. So yeah, I mean, there’s certainly ways over here that the, that the exchange tax exchanges and, and beneficial ways, which is not something I’m, you know, I always pass those questions on a little bit because it’s, I’m kind of, You know, when I speak to a lot of people and some people call me up and they’re like, well, I’ve got 50 houses in my portfolio and I’m, I’m looking at doing this and this.

[00:28:27] Dave: What’s your thoughts on this? And I always like, I dunno, I’ve just got five. Like, if you are hooked, if you’re someone who’s got no, no investment properties, or you’ve got a couple and you’re looking at how to start scaling that, you know similar to the diy, really kind of, I know what I know and, and I’m pretty comfortable with what I know and I’m, I’m quite happy to talk to people and direct them in certain ways, but I, I only know what it is like to get to five houses at the moment.

[00:28:52] Dave: And you know, there, there are certainly a lot of different tax systems that, you know, I don’t understand and I’m, I’m not there yet. You know, I use an accountant and I, I ask those questions over that way. But yeah, there, there’s definitely ways to do equivalence of 10 a one exchanges and then sort of move yourself across.

[00:29:08] Dave: As far as that apartment goes, I don’t think I’ve got enough equity in it yet to make it really worth selling. I think I’ve, you know, I hit it as the prices were going up quite a bit, but part of what I don’t like about it is, unlike the houses, it didn’t appreciate anywhere near as much as, as the houses that I had.

[00:29:27] Dave: So it’s doing okay. It takes a long, it’s, it’s profitable every month, but the fact it’s kind of a leasehold property as well, puts quite, has put quite a lot of restrictions and charges on things, you know, that don’t make it quite as black and white as everything else for me, and I’m, you know, I, I like to simplify things.

[00:29:42] Dave: I like to sort of make things as a chess as possible. Part of what I tweet out and stuff, you know, I try and make it that everyone can read it and understand it. And I think that the apartment definitely, I didn’t understand a lot of that when I got into it as much as I thought I did.

[00:29:56] Patrick Donley: You’ve got a great thread on mental hurdles that I really enjoyed.

[00:30:00] Patrick Donley: I, I wanted to hear a little bit about what some of the common mental hurdles are that you’ve experienced and how you broke through those. What are some things that just hold investors back?

[00:30:09] Dave: So I think, I think some of the biggest hurdle, I think, and you know, I, I talk a lot about, you know, I’ve, I’ve come from a very working class background where, you know, my, my mom was a cleaner at, at my high school growing up.

[00:30:20] Dave: My dad was a, a delivery driver. So, you know, I’m not, I’m not from a lot of, you know, people with an abundance of money. And I’m also not from where people would say, oh, go and invest this and, and yeah, go and go and put that money here and, and do this with it. So, you know, one, one of the big hurdles I think was just embracing what you don’t know and not being afraid to ask those questions.

[00:30:42] Dave: You know, I was always taught it’s really rude to ask people about money and it’s really, you know, it’s not the gun thing to say, well that’s a, you know, you might say, well, that’s a great car. Although I know that’s taboo on, on money Twitter, you know, but you know, that’s a great car. How, how would you afford that?

[00:30:57] Dave: I think, like I said, learning for a few real life and, and reading inspirations and, you know, finding how the ceiling can change really, really helps with that.

[00:31:07] Patrick Donley: Did you start getting turned on to podcasts as your portfolio developed and grew? And how did you continue your own education? Or are you just learning by doing well?

[00:31:19] Dave: Yeah, I think the first one there was a lot of learning by doing. There was a lot of sudden, I think, mindset wise, there was a lot of just blind confidence going in. I just thought I’m, I’m a hard worker. I’m reasonably educated. I have a really good network. Cause you know, I’m still heavily involved. I’m a president of a rugby club.

[00:31:35] Dave: I’m actually playing rugby for the first time in a few weeks tonight in a, in a game. But I had a good network. I knew I could get people in to help me and I’m, I’m not scared to kind of ask questions and, and sort of take on help. So I think all of those things really helped me to, to sort of move forward and sort of get over some of those barriers.

[00:31:55] Patrick Donley: I wanted to ask, as you started buying more properties, what kind of metrics were you looking at to figure out if a deal was a go or no go deal? What kind of criteria were you looking at?

[00:32:06] Dave: Well, certainly not, not as in depth as a lot of people that I see on Twitter. Some people, you know, show these balance sit sheets and they, you know, they’re profit and loss and things in, they’re like, it’s a real simple thing I’ll put together to analyze my deal.

[00:32:17] Dave: And I’m sort of thinking, oh my gosh. Like I, I was nowhere near that. But really, you know, I, I try and keep it really simple. I, you know, I speak about a few real specific areas and markets and I back myself against anyone on those markets. I know if something is 5,000 pound overpriced, I know if something will rent to a certain type of person.

[00:32:40] Dave: I know, you know, where the demand is for certain things within certain markets and, and sort of really how the city’s moving in that sense. But I, I dunno, other things, you know, I can’t, I speak to a lot of, you know people over in America or not, you know, through Twitter. With a lot of it, you know, people have said, oh well, which, which part of Arizona should I invest in?

[00:33:00] Dave: I was like, I dunno, I don’t, you know, I know the names of them, but I can’t tell you what, you know, the future development of that area is. You know, but here’s what I do to, to know that where I live. So why don’t you go and do this?

[00:33:12] Patrick Donley: Yeah. I had a interview recently with a guy named Shao Dowd who’s on Twitter, and he focuses just on one zip code.

[00:33:19] Patrick Donley: So one small area, and that’s all he does. He does not deviate outside of that and he’s very concentrated. It sounds like you’ve got a similar strategy where you’re just in your town, you know it really well, you know where rents are and where prices are and just keep an eye on the market all the time.

[00:33:34] Dave: That’s it. Well, I think it came from, you know, like I think a lot of people, you know, I’d go on our version of like Zillow and realtor and stuff, you know, which is you know, called right moves over here. So I’d go on that and I’d sort of, you know, scan within my area, liked, you know, draw your area you want to look into and put search criteria in.

[00:33:51] Dave: And then just, you know, look back on, you know, what, how, what is selling and how quickly are things selling and how much of a reduction are things taking, you know, I started in 2012 and I, I didn’t even know there had been a property crash in 2008, like when I started, I didn’t know I was coming on that next upswing of things.

[00:34:08] Dave: You know, like, like for earlier question, you know, I, podcasts are the main way that I consume podcasts on Twitter, really another online sort of stuff. The main way I consume knowledge and the way that I learn a lot. You know, I have like an hour commute each way to work every day which is my quietest hour of the day due to no children.

[00:34:28] Dave: And I, I embrace that and I used to just have white noise of music on every day, but I found podcasts probably seven years ago and, and I’m constantly listen listening to that and different one, a mix of. You know, the inspiration, I, you know, I find a lot of the American Property and Business Podcast way more inspirational.

[00:34:48] Dave: You know, there’s the, yeah. American dream and the kind of the hustle in, in America I think is, is another level and the kind cando attitude, which is, so I’ve always admired coming over and visiting a lot, but then the specifics of kind of the British and English markets, which, you know, are important for me cause I’m trying to bring kind of the energy of kind of the American podcast and then investors and kind of add that to what can sometimes be quite a sort of stiffer of a, of a British market.

[00:35:17] Dave: You know?

[00:35:18] Patrick Donley: Is there a popular real estate podcast show in, in England that you listen to?

[00:35:23] Dave: Yeah, so I mean, I do, I do, you know, probably, I probably listen to like seven or eight on, on rotation. There’s one called Property Hub, which is one I’ve listened to for a long time, which do a lot of free education for people, you know, they.

[00:35:35] Dave: Have a investor arm and things like that as well. And just two very relatable guys who, you know, very similar to me. You know, they’re much better than me, but they’re, they’re very similar to me in that they don’t make anyone feel like an idiot no matter what stage. They’re, you know, hundreds of episodes.

[00:35:51] Dave: But they make everything really accessible, explain what they’re talking about, and, you know, they don’t try and leave the, or leave any of the audience behind, which I think is, is really good. And certainly kinda a model that I’ve tried to bring into anything that I put out.

[00:36:05] Patrick Donley: It’s really interesting, I think, like once you get turned onto podcasts, like, I don’t know, the last time I listened to the radio or really listened to music.

[00:36:13] Patrick Donley: It’s kind of nuts in a way.

[00:36:15] Dave: Absolutely. And I, I, I find that, you know, I like the you know, a lot of the investor podcasts. I listen to a lot of those as well. And it’s since sort of starting on Twitter, which I’ve only done for a, you know, I started in the Pandemic really just having a lot of time at home.

[00:36:28] Dave: But it’s, it’s odd now that I kind of. Interact with people who host a lot of the podcasts I listen to, you know, just, oh, right now and, you know, have appeared on people’s podcasts, who I listen to, which is, which is really crazy, really. But, you know, I also like a lot of entrepreneurial podcasts as well.

[00:36:44] Dave: You know, although starting a business isn’t necessarily something that I’m into right now, although that, that could be a direction I go down as I sort of chase financial independence a little bit more. You know, I, I listened to my First Million is, is, is like one that again, seemed like it’s people like me, which I think is probably what a lot of people like about it as well.

[00:37:04] Dave: And I, one of the first ones was how I built this as well. I really liked for the same reason, you know, a lot of hustle, a lot of people talking and just real people who’ve done one.

[00:37:13] Patrick Donley: Yeah, I was going to mention my first Million. That’s, I’m a big fan of their show too, and they’re just funny. That’s great content.

[00:37:19] Patrick Donley: And they’re funny, funny guys just talking about different things that they do. And I don’t know, I, I definitely an enjoyable podcast.

[00:37:27] Dave: I think it’s too easy. I think with a lot of things, you know, it’s too real with different people, you can probably relate more to one than the other. And everyone probably relates more to one of them, just the way they break things down and talk about things and just, you know, it’s, it’s a lot of energy and it, it normalizes doing well, which is, which is something I really like and normalizes like an abundant mindset, which is, I think the more you can get that in your ears, the better.

[00:37:50] Dave: Yeah, definitely.

[00:37:51] Patrick Donley: Yeah. And they’re just sharing everything.

[00:37:53] Dave: Absolutely. Yeah. It’s open book. Open book, totally. Which is very

[00:37:56] Patrick Donley: similar to a lot of Twitter, isn’t it really? It is, it is. And that’s the beauty of Twitter. Just the openness of most of the people on real estate Twitter are just really eager to share, willing to share.

[00:38:06] Patrick Donley: Like you said, don’t make anyone feel stupid. And you know, we’re all at different development, you know, of where we are in our real estate career, so it’s a great place

[00:38:15] Dave: to learn. Absolutely. You know, I, I couldn’t recommend it enough. Like I said, I’m pretty fresh on there, really still, you know, a few years in.

[00:38:22] Dave: But you know, I think just. You know, being a part of it, you know, it’s, it’s difficult cause if people expect you, obviously to put content out a lot, which I try to do every day, but actually, you know, even more important is the questions I’m asking and you know, I’m looking at those people who are the next stage down the line to me.

[00:38:38] Dave: And that’s, you know, I’m, I’m fully open to those ideas and, and listening and learning just the same as what I imagine people who are starting out are doing, if they enjoy kinda what I’m putting out.

[00:38:48] Patrick Donley: I wanted to get into that. What kind of impact has Twitter had on your own business and your future goals?

[00:38:52] Patrick Donley: I know you’re really into goals and you’ve put those out there publicly on Twitter, which I think is cool for accountability. Talk to us about how Twitter has just affected your life and business.

[00:39:03] Dave: So yeah, I think it’s, it’s just really spurred me on, I think pre Twitter. I was thinking, you know what, if I could get to three houses, three properties, then I’m all good.

[00:39:13] Dave: I can still work in teaching till 65 or something, but I can retire with three paid off houses. You know, I can really boost my pension. I can live a nice last chapter. You know, that sounds quite bleak, doesn’t it? But you know what I mean? Like the last, you know, the last bit, whatever that’s going to be, the golden years is a much better way to say it.

[00:39:33] Dave: But yeah, and, and really just, just normalizing abundance and normalizing more and not kind of being embarrassed to say that I think has completely changed my views on things and just hugely accelerated what I ever thought I’d do. And is, is hugely, like you said, with the aims and goals of things. You know, I’m, I’m sat chatting sometimes, you know, hypothetically on Twitter with people who’ve got a hundred doors and 200 doors and, and all these different things.

[00:40:03] Dave: And, and I’m like, wow, this, this person’s really normal and this person is not this, it’s not Grant Cardone. I’m sat next to here. It’s someone who works in a shop in a random town. So it’s, it’s just made me see that with the right attitude that actually. Real lofty goals are available to me if I approach ’em in the right way.

[00:40:26] Patrick Donley: So let’s talk about that. You posted your goals, can you talk more about them and, and, and let’s get into that. So you’ve got five houses, five rentals right now.

[00:40:36] Dave: Five rentals right now. And I aim to, the goal is 50 for now. And the few reasons for that is because I had, my plan was turning the next 10 years.

[00:40:47] Dave: Although I know, you know, the more I look into it now, I’m thinking it’ll be a slower start. And then as compounding takes hold a little bit, hopefully it’ll quicken up sort of near the end. But yeah, I’ve sort of said, you know, one a year I thought was doable without neglecting my family and my responsibilities to the children I work with at school.

[00:41:05] Dave: Cause I, I take both of those really seriously. And, and I, and it’s, you know, if, if I’m failing at home, then what’s the point, right? So it’s yeah, I’m still very conscious to give a lot of myself to those things as well. So I thought one a year means that I can really concentrate on Dubai phase. I can view houses, I can project manage the renovations, which is what I do.

[00:41:29] Dave: And I can then do the renting out part. I can find the tenant myself, which is what I do. And I, I manage all my places myself as well. So as far as that goes, I thought one would be incremental enough so that I could feel the breaking point coming where I might have to outsource the management side of things or something like that, you know?

[00:41:48] Dave: But, you know, if things accelerate, I’m fully prepared to jump onto that if opportunity comes by way.

[00:41:55] Patrick Donley: So you mentioned doing the renovations. I wanted to get into that. You, you wrote about some value boosters that you do. Can you talk to us about the five golden value boosters that you like to do on your properties?

[00:42:06] Dave: Yeah, sorry. If I can, if I remember all five, it’s, yeah, I, I think it’s, it’s about, With me. You know, when I buy somewhere, I’m generally throwing apart from my emergency fund, I’m throwing most of my money at it at that point. You know, my, my, as a lot of people who work in real estate, you know, my, my checking account is not big.

[00:42:23] Dave: Like it’s got enough to cope with a sudden issue and it’s got enough to cope with a few problems with the properties, but it’s not tens of thousands of pounds. So the value adds I look to do really when I look at houses is I kind of think, what do I see that would put people off at a similar price point?

[00:42:41] Dave: And the houses I generally look at are starter homes. You know, they’re, the people who are also going to be looking for it are probably, you know, young couple or something who who are after that kinda price point in that kinda place. So I talk about, you know, the landscaping is a big one. I think it’s unbelievable how many people pass on houses because the lawn is scruffy and cuz there’s overgrown trees of which.

[00:43:05] Dave: Give me a lawn mower, a sore in three hours and I’d figure that out. But people literally pass on them because of things like that. The other things really that I found are what turn out to be the key kind of grip sales points to then rent it on afterwards. The key, I suppose, rental points. So kitchens and bathrooms, certainly, you know, they’re not particularly expensive in the houses I look for because they’re quite small.

[00:43:28] Dave: So I’ve certainly got a few kind of packages from, you know, our equivalent to like Home Depot and things that I’m like, well, I like this tile from here. I like this bass from here. I like this shower setup. And it’s like, you know, I can just take that whole design, which is very unoffensive and is, and just take that press, click to buy and it arrives and that goes in, you know?

[00:43:52] Dave: And my builder, who I’ve used, who’s a friend of. He knows exactly, you know, he’s, he’s a very accomplished and good builder anyway, but it’s a case of he knows exactly what’s going to be coming and it’s, you know, there’s no surprises with, you know, fitting certain things. It’s the same thing. So the last couple of kitchen and bathrooms I’ve done have been the same order that turns up to a different size and then gets fitted.

[00:44:16] Dave: The other ones are, you know, flooring and paint. Like paint is the most ridiculous return of investment thing you can do. You know, I’ve, two of my places had to like, I dunno what the word is, I think it’s like, we call it wood chip wallpaper, but it’s like the popcorn ceilings, you know, like that as a whole wallpaper and the whole house.

[00:44:33] Dave: So, you know, the last couple of places it puts people off so much because it is a huge job. And, you know, the first house I did it myself in one of my school holidays, took all vacations, took me weeks and weeks of just hacking and steaming and, you know, I got someone in to do it on the last one, but, you know, it’s, it’s a few hundred to get that job done, but, You know, you save thousands on the buy because so many people are turned off from it.

[00:44:58] Patrick Donley: And that’s wallpaper or the popcorn ceiling?

[00:45:00] Dave: Or both? Well, both really. But the, the popcorn ceiling wallpaper is a thing. I think I, we, we call it wood chip wallpaper. I dunno, but it seemed, it was a big fashion thing in like the seventies maybe. And I seem to pick a lot of houses up that seem to have not renovated since the seventies.

[00:45:17] Dave: Yeah. So that, you know, they’re hacking that off or where possible, which is fantastic for me. Just painting like, you know, a real clean white with a feature walls just reds really well. And, you know, just makes a place look smart. A bit of wood flooring you know, our laminate flooring or out, out the flooring again just, just makes the place look fresh and, you know, you’ve, you’ve got a great product going out without having.

[00:45:41] Dave: Spend mega, mega bucks doing huge add-ons and, and things like that, you know, so, so those things really are my big, big add-ons that you can do early on. Big, you know value add that we can do. You know, I spoke before about just simple things sometimes, like painting kitchen cabinets. People sometimes think, cuz you know, we probably all watch the same TV shows on hdtv.

[00:46:04] Dave: You know, you’ve gotta rip everything out, you’ve gotta have a demo day, you’ve gotta bun the wall out, you’ve gotta do all these things. Whereas actually, usually it’s just a case that they’re like carcasses of the kitchen. Most things are good to go, you know, they’re, they’re fine and they’re sturdy. And things that were made 20 years ago are usually so much high quality than what comes out now.

[00:46:25] Dave: You know, all you gotta do is sound it and paint it and stick some new handles on and, and you’ve got a great product to go out.

[00:46:32] Patrick Donley: I saw one of your rentals, I think it was a really pretty brick home, or, or most of them, brick.

[00:46:39] Dave: Nearly near of everything over here is brick. So we yeah, it’s completely, completely different in the main, main setup.

[00:46:46] Dave: And our houses are built, but most of mine are sort of 19, probably forties to kind of maybe eighties as the newest ones. So they’re, they’re kind of all in that bracket. But yeah, everything’s brick.

[00:46:58] Patrick Donley: So talk to us more about the actual strategy. You’re going to stick with the single family homes and do one per year.

[00:47:05] Patrick Donley: Do you, are you saving, can you talk about your savings rate with you and your wife both working? Are you stashing, I talked to one guy and he, they lived on her, her salary and like saved 90% of his income.

[00:47:18] Dave: Are you doing anything like that? It sounds really bad. I’m not as organized as that. So, I mean, we, you know, the, the primary thing for us is that our bills are paid and that our family do not miss out on anything.

[00:47:32] Dave: You know, I’ve got a five year old and a two year old, so I’m not having to. Maybe outlay quite apart from the daycare, which, you know, is an absolute killer. Apart from that, you know, I’m not having to pay for maybe all the things that come along with children straight away, you know, all the extracurriculars and things like that.

[00:47:49] Dave: So really, we, we make sure everything is covered and then we, everything after that goes to real estate. I, I don’t mind if I have less one months and, you know, I’ve had some pretty big things break recently, so, you know, we’ve, we’ve had to cover a few repairs that wouldn’t have normally been needed. And, you know, the emergency funds got soaked up on a couple of parts of the last renovation.

[00:48:12] Dave: As much as a couple of things breaking everything left, it goes to real estate. There’s no, apart from a little dabble with a few sort of stocks and, you know, a while ago I had a little go with crypto, but I, I just don’t understand it and I just think that, you know, as much as I was really interested in learning how to buy, buy a stock and, and you know how that all works.

[00:48:34] Dave: I found out pretty quickly that there’s a reason why people who are really educated on it do better. So I’m kind of sticking to what I know. So the answer to your question is every single laugh goes to real estate at this point.

[00:48:46] Patrick Donley: And it’s something you can control far greater than you can, like some company that you’ve got no influence over.

[00:48:53] Patrick Donley: You know, you can really have like an asymmetric edge knowing your market far more than like kind of the information that you would have on a stock. Like that’s widely available and we probably have less information than that’s it.

[00:49:04] Dave: Exactly. And I think as, as far as you said as sort of strategy going forward, you know, I’m, I’m interested in, in multi-family.

[00:49:10] Dave: It’s not as much a thing over here to be honest. Like you can buy an apartment as part of the block, but you, you very rarely see the whole block coming up. It does sometimes, but it classes as a commercial buy most of the time rather than a residential, which changes an awful lot about the amount of sort of deposit you have to put down and, and things like that.

[00:49:30] Dave: So, you know, there’s, there’s certainly. I’m, I’m at the point where I’m seeing way more deals than I can fund. I’ve done everything so far, a hundred percent me. So, you know, part of me thinks, you know, stick, stick to what you’re doing and be a hundred percent owner of what you do. But the more, I think as you must find, the more you get involved in this space, kind of the more opportunity comes to you.

[00:49:51] Dave: And you know, the more people are coming to me with, with sort of offers of, I’ve got a lot of money but I dunno what I’m doing and I hear you have a lot of deals, but I, when I don’t do anymore at the moment, you know, I just send, people ask, I send them what I know or what I’ve got saved. You know, I don’t, I don’t pull any money back from that at the moment, but it’s definitely the more common it’s becoming, the more I think I should probably charge people for this down the road.

[00:50:16] Patrick Donley: Yeah. So you haven’t partnered with anyone at this point, right?

[00:50:19] Dave: No, I think I’ve always, I’ve always just what I’ve wanted, I could, I can afford to do myself. I, I get enough of savings together and I. Did my first big refinance last year, which was a different way of gang funds for me to kinda went through that process as well.

[00:50:36] Dave: So I’m, I’m at a point where, you know, I’ve got enough that I can manage it all myself. I can be in total control myself. And no, no one’s really come to me with anything yet that’s made me want to change that. But, you know, as I said in a post a while ago, and I saw, you know, right with most posts, you get inspiration for what someone else has, has done.

[00:50:56] Dave: And I saw the Monopoly brothers who are count, I really like just some real, real great guys and they just put one out that was like, just so you know, everybody, we’re up for collaborating. We’re here, we’re hungry, we’re, we know our stuff but don’t feel we shouldn’t reach out. And that’s kind of where I’m at.

[00:51:14] Dave: Like, you know, I’m, I, I wouldn’t not listen to someone and, you know, if it’s, if it’s great deal for both sides, you know, there’s a couple of people I’m talking to at the moment about. Some different sort of business opportunities, but if it’s, if it’s a good deal for both sides, you know, I’m all ears, you know, I’m, I’m open to it.

[00:51:31] Patrick Donley: That’s a great thing about Twitter. You never know who you’re going to meet or where it will lead.

[00:51:36] Dave: Yeah. And I, you know, and it goes, and it’s something that I found amazing about Twitter and I, you know, randomly get followed the other day, I randomly got followed by bigger pockets and I was like, well, why do you want to follow me?

[00:51:47] Dave: I’m like, what, what is this? And then, you know, I just have spoken to pe you know, wildly successful people and through it and people have contacted me who I know who they are. And I dunno if that’s sort of more a humbling thing or just, I just didn’t expect it. But it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s a great thing about it.

[00:52:07] Dave: There’s a lot of accessibility to, you know, the random conversation that I have with certain people who are hugely successful real estate, you know, investors and mentors. I’d pay thousands of dollars for that conversation. If I approached it straight up through a consultancy business or something. So, you know, there’s so much to learn and, and so much to take in if you got the right attitude, I think.

[00:52:30] Patrick Donley: Yeah. I have so, so many resources and such a great educational source. I wanted to talk about a post that you did about your number and you asked your Twitter followers, do you have a retirement planned as a financial number or as an age? I wanted to hear what your answer to that question was.

[00:52:47] Dave: No one actually asked me.

[00:52:48] Dave: It was yeah, mine, mine is an age actually, which I know is, I know, you know, Finit and, you know, retwit. It, it’s very numbers focused a lot, you know, there’s a lot of people from the financial sector and for them it’s very much when I hit this much per month and when I hit this. My problem with it is that in a, in a business like real estate where, you know, my house is worth a different value every month and therefore my, you know, Loan costs change every few years because we don’t have like 30 year fixes over here.

[00:53:17] Dave: We have to fix first three to five years, really maybe seven a push. So, you know, as the interest rate base rate’s changing for us, you know, our mortgage rates will change. It’s really difficult for me to say a number because I could always be chasing that number and I could hit that number, and then a financial crash could mean all of a sudden I’ve gotta go back to work.

[00:53:37] Dave: So part of me with these, you know, 10 houses in the next 10 years is just if I can make enough money to pay myself what my W2 pays me right now, which as most people know as a teacher age, is not particularly lofty, then I just need to walk. Because the things I like doing, like I’m really active. I love to ski, I love to do things like that.

[00:54:01] Dave: Like if I wait till I’m, and you know, they’re talking at the moment in England at raising a retirement age of 67, it’s like, you know, I’ve played. 30 plus years of full contact rugby. Like, I’m not going to be skiing anywhere at 67. So I sort of, if I hit that age of 50, that if I could walk at point and still have the freedom to within business ventures that interest me, but not be tied to a, you know, nine to five, you know, it would mean I could live a 50 plus life doing what I want to do.

[00:54:36] Patrick Donley: Talk to us about that. How would you spend your time? You’ve got some travel goals.

[00:54:39] Dave: I know, I mean, like I said, you know, young, young children might have solid to say about how that money is spent and how much I’m allowed to be away. But, you know, I, I mean, ideally, like, you know, I’m, I think my, my thing, you know, I’m, I’m a career teacher and I teach lots of different things and work with young people a lot, and I love real estate and, and investing.

[00:54:58] Dave: So, you know, I’d love to combine that and, you know, there’s, there’s a lot to be said for improving. How people learn. And you know, I’ve said I’ve reached out to a few quite well-known people on Twitter who have sort of slated what people learn at school. I know we had, we talked about this earlier, but you know, my point is, well, I’m really good at teaching and you are really good at being an entrepreneur.

[00:55:20] Dave: So I, we can, let’s do it. You know, let’s, you know, then they’re, they’re going to listen to people who look like them. You know, I think social media and, you know, TikTok and, and Instagram are, are the people that young people really look up to now. And I think the more people like that can make that sort of education accessible, the more they can listen.

[00:55:40] Dave: So, you know, I’d love to get into the space of a bit more sort of consultancy. I’d love to keep, you know, investing beyond that time without maybe being quite as hands on. But a, you know, ideal setup for me would be a few months ski resort maybe, and working out of there. And then like I’ve been after to travel a bit and being really present for my children as I get older as well, because, Teaching’s pretty all consuming and you know, it certainly I’d, I’d like to give the best of myself to them, which I think I could do a much better balance that, of that with, with a bit more freedom.

[00:56:15] Patrick Donley: Makes sense. I I, I wanted to ask you about just advice and words of wisdom you have to someone listening, thinking about getting started. You’ve got a very busy life, you’ve got young kids, a wife, nine to five job, you’ve got five rentals. Talk to us a little bit about what you would say to someone thinking about taking that first step or what kind of words of wisdom you ha would have for them.

[00:56:37] Dave: I think, you know, I did a post recently where I just spoke about sort of three real basic frameworks and points of which I think people need to do. I think you need to get your financials in order, because I know a lot of people, you know, a real headline grabbing tweet is, go buy a house with no money. I don’t always think that’s the best thing.

[00:56:53] Dave: I think a bit of skin in the game is you know, really important for me and not dying out without very much money. The fact I was all in meant that I had to make that work. So I think talking to anyone new is, you know, the first point. Get educated podcast books, Twitter, there is no excuse, you know, the internet, you know, I’ve, I’ve wrote before about how to utilize Zillow, you know, write, move over here.

[00:57:18] Dave: It just gives you everything you need to know to become an expert on an area so that there’s really no, if you’ve got an internet connection, there’s no excuses anymore on, on why you don’t know.

[00:57:28] Patrick Donley: What would you say to someone who their argument is, I don’t, I just don’t have enough time. I mean, clearly you’re a busy guy.

[00:57:33] Patrick Donley: There’s a lot of people in your shoes who are saying, I just don’t have time right now.

[00:57:37] Dave: Well, I mean, there, there’s lots of different ways to invest and, you know, you can, I’ve learned, you know, you can outsource pretty much anything. You know, if you’re willing to give up the money, you can get someone to run it for you.

[00:57:46] Dave: If you’re willing to give up the money, you don’t need to do any work yourself. If you are willing to give up the money, someone will do all that management for you. And if you’ve got enough money to do that, then that’s great and, and that’s a space where you could be investing. You know, I would probably say to someone, maybe looking at a REIT or something is much better for you.

[00:58:02] Dave: If you’ve really got no time whatsoever. You can still have a bit of skin in the game. You can learn what investing is. You can, you know, do all that. You can get the investor report and track your. Without having to deal with people and money and, and, and things like that daily. But you know, the other thing, if you’ve really got no time whatsoever for it, then it may have just not been a thing for you.

[00:58:22] Dave: Maybe there’s other investments, you know, a lot of, you know, people I I speak to are heavy into dividends and things like that and, you know, that’s, that’s a much more passive way of, of making money. But, you know, you, you need to put quite a lot more money in to start with. So it’s really unique as, as to where, you know, the first thing when people ask me, I, I think I want to do this right?

[00:58:43] Dave: How much time you got, how much money you got? And, and what do you want to do? Like, and, and once you answer those questions, there’s probably a route that suits them.

[00:58:53] Patrick Donley: Dave’s a wrap up. I wanted to do something I’ve not done yet. It’s I want to do like a quick fire round. Put you in the hot seat.

[00:58:59] Dave: Okay, let’s do it.

[00:59:00] Dave: I’m glad you didn’t say sing a song or something. No. Cause that was great. You wouldn’t, you wouldn’t have won that show. Lemme tell you.

[00:59:07] Patrick Donley: So, first question, who’s your favorite Twitter account?

[00:59:10] Dave: So Sean Pori or Sam, you know, I, I like the, my first million boys, so I think you know, if I get into real estate I’m going to miss someone out cuz there’s an absolute stack of them that I really enjoy.

[00:59:20] Dave: But yeah, maybe that’s my fir my best too, most impactful book. I’m Go, I mentioned earlier Richard Branson losing my Virginity. It was someone from where I’m from who had an abundance mindset and did really well.

[00:59:36] Patrick Donley: It’s a really good one. I love that book too. Next one, controversial opinion that you have that others in the real estate world may not share.

[00:59:44] Dave: That you do need a little bit of money to invest in real estate.

[00:59:48] Patrick Donley: So you’re, you’re little skeptical of the no money down people.

[00:59:51] Dave: I’m not skeptical. I just think in, in essence, packs on a load of risk. And for me personally, I don’t want to see any advice I give lead to someone being broke, but I just think.

[01:00:03] Dave: They’re having a certain amount of, you know, skin in the game, a certain amount of money in, you know, LTB and the deal. It takes that risk of a market shifting and an impending crash away a little bit. So my view to anyone is, you know, I, I don’t preach for no money down thing. Last question.

[01:00:19] Patrick Donley: Why do you love West Virginia?

[01:00:22] Dave: Oh wow. What a, well, it was the first place I ever went to in America. It has a bunch of, I think it’s a misunderstood place and, you know, I’ve got a lot of time for it in that way. I’ve been shown a lot of love when I go over there by a lot of people. And you know, it’s a great ski resort up there in Snowshoe that I enjoy.

[01:00:39] Dave: So it keeps me going back a lot. Yeah, it’s a beautiful

[01:00:43] Patrick Donley: place. I’ve got an uncle with a place down there and have skied down there a few times and love to go down to whitewater raft at the New River.

[01:00:51] Dave: New River. I’ve been there many times. I’ve been there many times. I love it. Absolutely love it.

[01:00:56] Patrick Donley: So Dave, I really want to thank you for your time today.

[01:00:58] Patrick Donley: This has been a lot of fun. For listeners that want to get in touch with you or want to learn more about you, what’s the best way for them to do that?

[01:01:05] Dave: So on Twitter Side Hustle Houses is the best way to get in touch with me. I check into that pretty much daily, so, you know, absolutely drop me a follow, drop me a message.

[01:01:15] Dave: You know, I, I’d love to meet new people and yeah, chat real estate any day. Awesome.

[01:01:21] Patrick Donley: Thanks so much for your time today, Dave. I appreciate it.

[01:01:23] Dave: Patrick, thank you so much. It’s been great to talk to you.

[01:01:26] Patrick Donley: Okay folks, that’s all I had for today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed the show and I’ll see you back here real soon.

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