And for the first time, I noticed that my parents had gotten a little bit older, and that a lot of the dreams that they had talked about their whole lives, they hadn’t yet accomplished, and they were still stressed about money and their friends were stressed about money. And my friends were stressed about money that I just started to think about money and wondered why everyone was so stressed about it. And then I just made a list of everything that I’d been taught about money and everything I thought about money.

I kind of systematically just started digging into it by reading books by searching online and I figured pretty quickly that a lot of what I’d been taught about money and a lot that’s been shared about money, just in our culture, is either so old school. It’s obsolete, or it’s just not designed to really help you get more freedom in your life. It’s designed to help you maybe have enough money by the time you’re 65. And so this kind of clued into all of this, but I still obviously didn’t have a job. And I was doing a search around this time. And I saw a Google mobile ad, and I researched what Google mobile ads were, I figured out that you could get certified for free by Google.

It was called Google AdWords University at the time. And so I ended up spending the next month studying for the Google AdWords exam, going through their videos, watching YouTube videos, and I completely overprepared and ended up passing the exam. I put it on my LinkedIn profile, I put it on my resume, and then just applied to work at a digital marketing agency. And I’d applied to a bunch of jobs before this, but once I applied to the agency with this credential, I ended up having a great interview and I got the job. And so I went from making nothing living with my parents to making a little over $50,000.

I really wanted to live differently than I’d lived before because by this time, I’d read quite a bit about money. And so I was saving about 50% of my income, I ended up getting out my parents house and renting a really crappy apartment and driving an $800 car and, you know, did all the math and still realized that making $50,000… It was going to take me at least 20 years to retire or have enough money to quote-unquote, retire. And so then I realized there was a limit to how much I could save and cut back but I needed to go out and start trying to make more money.

That’s when I started side hustling. I learned how to build WordPress websites, which at the time weren’t as easy to do as they are to build today, and started reaching out to people on Craigslist, and started working with a couple different lawyers. And fast forward by the end of that year, I’d made over $300,000 in total with my full time job and my side hustle. And I’d saved over 80% of my income and then I ended up leaving my full time job and starting my own company, then launching a second company, and I was off to the races. And fast forward five years and three months and a couple of days from when I left my parents house, I’d saved $1.25 million. And I’d reached financial independence shortly after turning 30.

Robert Leonard 4:15
So for decades, it seems that traditional budgeting strategies have taught people that they need to cut costs as much as they can but that’s not exactly what you did. You really looked at the other side of things and really tried to earn more. And those old budgeting strategies include cutting things that people really enjoy in life. But I know you have a little bit of different philosophy on saving. Can you talk to us about how millennials can save more money without having to give up on the things that really make them happy?

Grant Sabatier 4:40
Yeah, that’s a really great question. So sometimes in life, it’s always easier to buy something because you feel like you deserve it or you feel like because other people have it that, you should have it too. And just like in life, it’s always easier to chase the next thing. It’s always easier to often buy something to solve a problem than it is to do the much more difficult work, which is kind of step back and think about, you know, why do I really want this thing in the first place? Do I even want it? Is it going to make me happy?

And so doing that work of inside me, what kind of life do I want to live? And how does what I want to buy align with that life? And then I started to cling to this idea of like, “Okay, if I wanted my life to be built around these things that I really love, how much money do I actually need?” And you know, when I first put all of my information into a retirement calculator, it told me that I’d need $3.5 million to retire. And then I started doing the math and realize that just living a life doing the things that I love, I could do those with a lot less money than $3.5 million. And so I figured out kind of what made me happy. I quantified it and figured out how much it cost, figured out how much an awesome life that I really enjoyed would cost and would probably cost in the future and then that’s when I built the math around.

And I think, you know, we live in a world where we always focus on the numbers. And money is always talked about like how much do you need? How much do you need? And I think the more important question is, what kind of life do you want to live and figuring that out. And then figuring out how much money you need, because a lot of people, what they do is they just try to make as much money as they can. And then they try to fit their lifestyle into that amount of money and a lot of cases they spend above what they’re making. And you know, they really have it backwards in that sense.

I advocate what I call the only budget you’ll ever need, which is, you know, you’re always going to be able to save more money on those things that you typically spend more money on. So the average American spends over 70% of their income on housing, transportation, and food.

And so that’s where you’re going to get the big savings, house hacking, you know, renting out your extra rooms, renting a four bedroom, and renting out three bedrooms to your friends or to other people to offset or completely cover the cost of your rent or your mortgage, driving a used car. Maybe you don’t even need a car and then you know from a food perspective, obviously, massive cost for convenience, whenever you use UberEats or Seamless, you know and eat out at restaurants. I’m not telling readers what to buy, what not to buy. Just simply realize that whenever you’re spending money, you’re actually trading not only the time that you spent to make the money, but you’re also trading the freedom that that money can buy you if you invested it instead of spending. And so you know, those are some mindset shifts that I ended up picking up along the way. And you know, it really completely changed my life.

Robert Leonard 7:30
I know you’ve touched on the earning potential a few times. And I want to dive into that deeper now because there is a limit on how much people can save but there’s ultimately no limit really on how much someone can earn. Why is it so important for someone to not only focus on savings but also on their earnings?

Grant Sabatier 7:47
I think the bigger question is why is like 99% of personal finance focused on the saving side element in one of the most expensive cities in the world? And the way that I’m able to do that is not only was I able to save and invest. And I lived in a crappy apartment for quite a long time. I also even… in New York City, keep my cost, you know, as low as I can. But on the flip side, the earning piece, I think where people get into trouble is not thinking that they have the ability to make more money. They kind of accept whatever their full time job pays them. And then we just get in a mindset where we’re afraid to ask for a raise, because we don’t want to get fired, or, you know, there’s so many things that go into why people don’t get paid as much as they often deserve. And that’s what capitalism is built around. I mean, capitalism is built around efficiency. Your boss is making money on your time and your boss’s boss, you know, if you’re in a public company, your shareholders, and that’s what keeps everything working. And that’s why there’s profit to go around because you’re making a certain amount of money on someone’s time.

And then the second piece is just going out and trying to diversify your income streams. It’s not easy. Nothing in life is easy, but it’s one of those things that does get easier over time. So starting a side hustle, seeing how it makes you feel, seeing if you enjoy it, seeing what you like about it, seeing what you don’t like about it, and then the entire time investing as much as that money as you can. But I think, you know, people get addicted to money. I was addicted to money as well for quite a while. It’s like a game where you’re always making more and more. And once again, it’s always kind of easier to chase more money than it is to even get to the point where you realize you have enough or you start…

You know, this is the cool thing about like some millennials and younger people now is that they’re starting to really understand the trade-offs that they’re making. And even if they can make more money, they know they have to trade more time in order to do it. And they’re like, nope. More people are reaching out to me. And they’re like, “No, you know, I didn’t accept a promotion that I was offered, because I know that with that promotion would come more expectations on my time. And I like the way my life is now.”

That really blows my mind. And I’m excited to hear because just you know, for a long time, I think especially us as Americans, we’re always just trying to chase that dollar and that’s not what it’s about. The whole idea is how can you make more money in less time and there’s so many different ways to do that. Or maybe get to the point where you’re like, you know, I’m just not willing to trade my time for money because time is so much more valuable because you can’t get back your time. But you can always go out and make more money if you want to.

Robert Leonard 10:16
Dive in a little bit deeper into that corporate salary piece. How can somebody listening to the show today that works a corporate job rapidly increase their salary?

Grant Sabatier 10:25
First, understand your market value. Your market value is what another company would pay you for your skills and experience. This can be kind of hard to do on your own, you know. You can go to glass door indeed and search for you know the role that you have and see what other people get paid in similar positions at other companies. But the easiest way to do it is, often, most industries have recruiting companies and recruiters are often only paid if they placed you in a job and they’re not paid by you. They’re paid by the company that hired them to get you into a job. So it’s no cost to you as an employee. And I often recommend that the fastest way to get a raise is you got to figure out what you’re worth.

And so going and talking to recruiters in your industry, meet with three or four of them, show them your resume, ask them what they think you should be making. And you might be surprised because they might have another opportunity for you that you never even thought about. Maybe they have a job that will pay you 30,000 more dollars than they’ve been looking to hire someone for. And boom, all of a sudden, you’re able to move and you know, make 30,000 more dollars. Or they’ll know the skill sets that you need in order to get a job that pays more or maybe they’ll give you the information that you’re making $15,000 less than someone should with your experience. And then you can use that and take that back to your own company and ask for a raise.

The other piece is this is what you do to figure out your market value. The other side of the equation is how to figure out your actual value to your company. And so this is a little bit more challengeing to do but anyone who’s making a salary is getting paid to do a specific job. And so you need to really study your job description, what are you getting paid to do, that’s what you’re getting paid to do.

When you’re kind of in bonus territory and raise territory, it is when you’ve gone above and beyond. And then the last thing is it costs the average company about 40% to 60% of your annual salary to replace you. And this is where the power dynamic has shifted, where employers used to have all the leverage and all the power and now employees actually do, because there’s more job they can seize than there have ever been before. So if you have some solid skill set or some experience, you know, you’re probably worth more than you think. And so just going in and realizing that you have more power, you can negotiate a 10 or $15,000 raise just because that would even be cheaper than your company paying to replace you.

Robert Leonard 12:53
For those who may not want to spend their time focused on increasing their salary through the various ways that you just mentioned, but they’d rather focus on building their own business or side hustle or small business or startup, what is the best way for them to go about starting a profitable side hustle? And do you have any specific types of side hustle that you’d recommend?

Grant Sabatier 13:12
Oh, man, this is like, such a huge question. I always recommend starting a side hustle where you’re the boss, where you control your time where you are. At some point, if you want to make it really profitable, you either have to charge a lot more money for a certain thing. Or you have to go out and hire other people to do the work. And that’s really one of the kind of x factors with side hustling is, you don’t actually do the work yourself. You spend time getting the clients or growing the business and then you hire other people to actually do the work.

Robert Leonard 13:46
Yeah, I think the big thing there is the scalability. You know, Uber and Lyft, those are great. You don’t have to work a full time job. If you don’t want… you are kind of working for yourself, like you said, but it’s not scalable. There’s no way you’re not leveraging anybody else’s time and you’re still trading your time for dollars, which is ultimately what we’re trying to get away from.

Grant Sabatier 14:04
Exactly.

Robert Leonard 14:05
So what have been some of your biggest mistakes that you’ve personally made with money on your way to financial freedom? And how can someone listening to the show today avoid those same mistakes?

Grant Sabatier 14:16
I think I kind of made money  through a lot of my financial independence journey. You know, I think financial independence can become money addiction in another form. I think you can chase money too hard, and I definitely did that. I also, you know, one of the biggest mistakes I made is I didn’t realize how much freedom I already had when I was going through the journey.

So I thought that I needed to save a million dollars and everything would be you know, rosey, you know, at the end of the journey, and everything would be perfect. And what I didn’t realize is a lot of that freedom that I was craving, I already had so much earlier. And so even when I had $100,000 saved, I could have chilled out a little bit and stopped and took a kind of an inventory of my life. But I just kept trying to make more and more money and was just blowing through every goal, every milestone without taking a moment to recalibrate and reflect.

And then the other thing is, it’s great to have kind of a goal of I want to save a million dollars or I want to be financially independent or have $10 million. But those goals don’t really matter, if you’re still living paycheck to paycheck. You got to focus on getting to that next level of financial freedom, no matter where you’re at.

That bigger goal, in a lot of cases, just becomes a distraction for people, either because it’s so insurmountable that they can’t imagine even accomplishing it or it just takes their focus away from the fact that the millions of dollars doesn’t matter right now, if you’re living paycheck to paycheck. Just focus on getting to that level and see how you feel. And I didn’t really stop to realize that and if I had, U would have chilled out a little bit, and it might have taken me you know, a couple more years to reach financial independence, but I would have enjoyed my life a little bit more.

The other thing I wish I would have done was, you know, hindsight is always 20-20… I really believe that real estate is the fastest path to financial independence. You can become financially independent three different ways. Either, one, you can save up over a million dollars like I did invest it and live off the interest. Number two, you can just have some form of consistent recurring income, like rental property income, that, you know, I have friends who are 25, 26 years old, who have three rental properties that the cash flow on them is $5000 to $7,000 per month.

And you know, they’re able to live on $50,000. They’re financially independent, they could keep growing their real estate portfolio, they could travel full time, but they took the other route where as long as your expenses are covered, and the income is consistent, like most rental income is, you’re good. You could be set for life. And then the third way is really just some hybrid of those two, and I invested real estate, but I wasn’t really smart about it in terms of setting up consistent rental income. I always thought that real estate, while I did buy a property and had one rental property, I always thought real estate as being kind of a lot harder than it actually is. And like, I wasn’t going to find the perfect deal. But in a lot of cases with real estate, you kind of got to get in the game and you start figuring it out from there. There’s also much better information on real estate investing now than there was when I was coming up in the game.

Robert Leonard 17:33
Yeah, I love those points there about real estate because I’m a real estate investor myself, as a millennial. And that’s one of the big ways that I’m approaching financial freedom myself is through real estate. And I think a lot of people think that real estate is only for rich people or that it’s super complex and sophisticated, and they can’t do it. But I don’t think that’s true. And that leads into my next question, what is the common piece of advice that you hear experts gurus give that you don’t believe is true?

Grant Sabatier 18:03
I think that we spend way too much time talking about student loan debt, just as millennials and as a culture. And I think that that’s a real disservice to people, because so many people hear that and then they’re like, “Well, I have student loan debt, and everyone has student loan debt. So this is just the way it is, you know, I’m not going to get ahead.” And they buy into that idea that if they have student loan debt that they shouldn’t be investing or that they can’t invest or that they have to wait until they pay back all their student loans to invest, which is completely wrong. And I think it’s yes, even if you have 30, 40-$50,000, $100,000 in student loan debt, that’s not going to hold you back for the rest of your life.

It’s kind of a scarcity mindset where if you just obsess over it and focus on just that, that’s what it’s going to be, it’s kind of gonna hold you back. So I feel like we spend way too much time talking about millennials and student loan debt when we should be talking about… We live in a time where it’s never been easier in history to make money. And here are the ways to do that. And here’s a way to, you know, live a life that you love. I wish there was more conversation around the connection between savings rate and years to financial freedom. And just kind of the tone of it is always saving, saving, cut back, when in reality, saving is an opportunity. It’s not a sacrifice. And so I think a lot of what’s still being shared in the personal finance world that, like the mainstream level, is still the same stuff that my parents were listening to in like the 80s.

Robert Leonard 19:35
Yeah, and the student loans point is so true. You can’t search millennial anywhere, whether it be Google or social media or anything, without learning or seeing something about student loan debt. It’s everywhere.

Grant Sabatier 19:46
Yeah, it’s everywhere. And the fact that millennials aren’t investing in homes and are making you know, statistically generationally less than our parents made in our same age, and, you know, it’s all like, and we’re going to enter in a recession soon and everyone’s screwed. But the cool thing is on the flip side, either because they have to, or they’re forced to, or because they want to, or some hybrid of the two, it’s cool to see more millennials just living different lives, whether it’s like in RVs, or being digital nomads or house hacking, you don’t need as much money as you used to to live an awesome life. And that’s a cool thing.

There’s literally two types of millennials. There’s the millennial that’s like, held back and they’re like, “I’m never going to get ahead student loan debt.” And then there’s the other side. They’re the ones who were like, “Hey, I’m going to house hack, and I’m going to have no rent so that I’m going to invest my money and it’s going to give me enough money that I can travel for six months out of the year. And then while I’m doing that, I’m going to be launching my, you know, online business and I’m learning how to build these skills.” It’s either one or the other.

Every day, I encounter both and, you know, I wish there could be more work and that’s what I’ve tried to do is just like how do you bring these two groups together, where you can show the people who don’t know how to do it, how to do it, and you know, really kind of lift everyone up. Because I think a lot of people, they just don’t know that some of this stuff is actually possible because it’s not really taught, it’s not really talked about much. And whenever there’s money, there’s always going to be scammers and greed and people running massive Facebook ad campaigns to get you to invest in their like, drop ship company course and, you know, mastermind, all those sorts of things.

So I think there’s just such an inherent skepticism about money and the people that talk about money that a lot of people, even when they go from that kind of scarcity mindset, and they wade into the personal finance world, a lot of what they get met with is just like, either they get scammed or they’re like, “This is a lot more complicated than I thought it was going to be.” Or they’re afraid because I do think that in large part the finance industry tries to keep people in the dark in order to you know, keep making money off of them.

Robert Leonard 22:01
How can we get people from the group that don’t know about it or don’t think it’s possible to the group of people that are actually taking action on it? You know, outside of the traditional ways, because people have been writing books about this. People have been posting courses, they’ve been posting it on social media. And there’s still that large group of people that don’t know about it or don’t think it’s true. And it’s not being taught in colleges. It’s not being taught in high schools. So what can we do to get those people who aren’t aware of it or don’t think it’s possible to actually take action?

Grant Sabatier 22:32
I think we always have to meet them where they are. And so it’s one of those things where, when I see say, a millennial stressed about money, and this is one of those things like you hear it all the time, like you’re sitting in a coffee shop… I’m sitting in a coffee shop a couple weeks ago, and there were these two women. They were having this conversation about how they were stressed about money and they didn’t know what to do and they just felt so down. And the perfect opportunity there is to be like, “Hey, check this out. You know, here’s my book. Or here is, you know, whatever.”

And sometimes I actually do that with mixed results. But I think we have to kind of meet people where they are. And you can only kind of help someone in a lot of cases if they seek it out. And so that’s one of the challenges, they either get to such a pain point in their life. You know, often one of the things I found is that people get into personal finance when they’re at some life transition. And so whether it’s the kid who just graduated from college and now got a job, that’s an opportunity to teach them. Oftentimes, if they’re getting a big promotion, they’ll search again, if they’re having a kid, if a parent dies, if they’re moving to a new city, if they want to buy a home, you know.

There’s these certain moments in someone’s life when you can kind of have that opportunity to actually teach them something. But other than that, there is more happening in the financial literacy space. That’s somewhat exciting. It’s still pretty antiquated. And I think there’s more and more people who are simply starting to live by example in that one group. And so you know, I have friends who really don’t know much about what I do at all. And they’ll be like, “Wait, why were you able to travel for two months in Europe? How is that possible?” You know, and so or, “Wait, why don’t you have to commute?” Or these things where you’re living by example. And then that becomes the entry point to the conversation.

Robert Leonard 24:21
You mentioned before that you don’t need as much money to retire as people thought or as you used to. And that brings up one of the biggest surprises that I had when I came across your book. And that was your advice, talking about how you need less money to retire at age 30 than you do at age 65. How can that be possible?

Grant Sabatier 24:38
The simple idea is that if you can save enough money by the age of 30, you can just let compounding take over and you’d actually have way more money at the age of 65, than even if you would have just like kept working. And so that’s the simple idea and it works out mathematically. I think like 87% to 88% of the time where say, for example, you can save a million dollars by 30. That million dollars, even if you’re living off, you know, 4% of it is going to continue to grow and compound and will likely double, triple or even quadruple by the time that you’re 65. And you wouldn’t have had to have worked for the last 35 years. And so that’s basically how it works.

There’s also things that you know, you can build hedges into it. So you can always build some form of a consistent income stream because you are so young, you have more chances to go back to work or make more money at some point. They might stop making money for a while, but those skills that they use to get there, they still have and then they end up making money in some way down the line, because they’re just kind of naturally wired to make money in that way. There’s just a huge difference between doing something that you love and that doesn’t feel like work or that you don’t have to do for money, and have to actually work for money. By and large, if you can save up enough money by the age of 30, you need less money than you would at the age of 65 to last you for the rest of your life.

Robert Leonard 26:11
Before we wrap up the show, I want to talk about traveling. And then I also want to dive a little deeper into real estate. With the huge rise in popularity of traveling amongst millennials, pease talk to us about your ways for traveling the world for much cheaper or even free.

Grant Sabatier 26:27
So I mean, the simple thing is just making sure that you know the credit card rewards game and so there’s a big difference between people who use credit cards intelligently and people who don’t. I mean, that’s a very simple way to explain it but you should get a really great card like the Chase Sapphire Reserve or Preferred that gives you incredible points that you can redeem for miles.

The Chase Ultimate Rewards Travel Portal, with the Chase Sapphire Reserve, gives I believe, like a 1.25 redemption and so you can get flights for very, very few points within the Chase Ultimate Rewards Portal, and then you can also port points. And so the next level of the travel hacking game is understanding the points of value when you get it in one card and you transfer it to an airline. But I often recommend that people you know, be smart about money once you pay down your debt, and you get good at credit cards, put everything on a credit card, because that’s where you’re going to get the bonuses, signing up for a couple of different cards each year, you know, you’re getting the 40-200,000 point bonuses and those all add up. I mean, I’m routinely with just what I’m spending in the new cards that I open.

And so understand the basics of travel rewards, and then use your credit cards intelligently. And then on the flip side, I mean the best thing that’s happened for us is simply the fact that you can stay anywhere you know, in an Airbnb for under 50 bucks. And so you can fly to these places and stay incredibly inexpensively and so you can fly for free. You can stay for cheap. Food in most countries outside the United States is significantly cheaper than it is in the US. The dollar is very, very powerful. And so yeah, I mean, everything’s kind of in our favor.

So in the US, we have incredible travel rewards. We have incredible perks, we have incredible bonus offers, we have incredible flight cost. For example, I live in New York City, it’s one of the cheapest airports to fly out of in the United States. And so that’s one of the things. If you live in New England, get to New York City, and then you can fly anywhere, you know, relatively inexpensively even if you have to pay.

Robert Leonard 28:29
Now, do you think there’s any danger to telling millennials to put all of their charges on credit cards? Could you see that spiraling out of control?

Grant Sabatier 28:36
Oh, yeah, it happens all the time. I mean, that’s why I make that disclaimer. It’s a slippery slope. I mean, you shouldn’t be travel hacking, if you can’t pay your credit card off each month. I mean, that’s just the reality of the situation. But it’s like anything, you can start small and see how you feel, you know, sign up for that one card. And this is one of the things that a lot of people don’t know.

But in some cases, you can actually call up a credit card company and get your limit reduced. It’s not a great decision from a credit score perspective, just because you always want to have as much credit available as you can for your credit score. But if you have a problem, and you know you have a problem with credit cards, but you still want to travel hack, call, get the credit card, get the bonus, and then call them up and say, “Hey, I want you to reduce my $10,000 limit to $3,000.” In almost all cases, they’re going to do that for you. And then so there’s, you know, there’s kind of a threshold in terms of how much you can actually spend on that card.

Robert Leonard 29:32
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s great advice. I use exactly those strategies that you just mentioned. Every time I recommend it to somebody or I hear it recommended, I always get a little worried that someone’s going to take the advice. And then you know, like you said, it’s a slippery slope and you could quickly go down that slope and have credit card debt that makes all of those credit card rewards points or travel rewards that you got not even worth it. You know, it’s something that you just gotta really be conscious of. Now, in regards to real estate, it seems that many millennials think they’re not able to buy a house or they can’t invest in real estate. I mentioned that briefly before, but can you give specific examples of how a millennial can get involved with real estate?

Grant Sabatier 30:11
Yeah, absolutely. There’s a really great book that just came out by Craig Curelop called The House Hacking Strategy. And it’s an incredible book. He’s like, I think he’s 26. He’s already reached financial independence. He has three properties. He breaks out step-by-step-by-step-by-step exactly what he did. It’s an absolutely incredible book. And there’s so many different ways to do it. It’s like I often recommend, put 5% down instead of 20%. You know, one of the biggest myths is that you need 20% down payment and so people save for years and years and years to get that 20% down payment. And then they’ve either a.) been priced out of the market, or b.) they’ve waited too long to take advantage of the appreciation opportunity.

So in a lot of cases, if you live in a city, even if you don’t live in a city, put down 5% when you have the money, invest in real estate. Start that appreciation growing and start small. I mean, it’s like anything in life, you’re going to get a little bit more comfortable with it, you’re going to buy an apartment, never buy a studio or one bedroom, they just don’t appreciate it as fast. Buy two, three or four bedroom and then rent out the other rooms to cover the cost your mortgage. That’s something that most people can do.

You don’t have to do it forever, especially when you’re young, buy that three bedroom apartment, rent out the other two rooms, two roommates for a couple years. What you’re going to do is you’re gonna be paying down your mortgage, you’re going to have more money to invest because you’re not paying it to your mortgage. So then you can save up enough to buy a second property and then do the same thing. Rinse and repeat. You know, within three to five years, you’ve got three properties that are helping support your life. So I would definitely recommend checking out that book. It’s really, really worth the read.

Robert Leonard 31:45
I’ll be sure to put a link to that book in the show notes so you guys can check it out. It’s a BiggerPockets book. And if you guys remember a few weeks back, we had the CEO of BiggerPockets, Scott Trench, on the show as a guest. And as Grant has said, I think house hacking is a great strategy. I hacked my first two properties. So I’m very familiar with the strategy myself and I would highly recommend it as well. Grant, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Where can the audience go to learn more about you and all the different things that you have going on?

Grant Sabatier 32:13
My book is called Financial Freedom. It’s on Amazon and every bookstore, pretty much nationwide. You can also go to financialfreedombook.com. If you want to hit me up on Instagram, it’s either @financial freedom or at millennialmoney.com. And yeah, that’s the best place to reach me. Thanks, really. I appreciate you having me on.

Robert Leonard 32:34
Yeah, absolutely. And I’ll be sure to put links to all of those resources in the show notes so you guys can check it out. Thanks again, and I look forward to talking to you soon. All right, guys. That’s all I had for this week’s episode of Millennial Investing. I’ll see you again next week.

Outro 32:48
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