Rebecca Hotsko (02:36):

Thank you so much for joining us today. You are a former executive turned executive coach where you now coach high profile clients and help them achieve their goals. You were on We Study Billionaires with Trey talking about executive coaching. And today I really wanted to bring this back to our millennial audience and relate that framework back to how they can use it to set and achieve their goals.

Rebecca Hotsko (03:01):

But before we dive all into that, I’d like to start off today by having you talk a bit about your background and how you got into the work that you’re doing today.

Matt Spielman (03:10):

Thanks, Rebecca. And thanks again for having me on, it’s really great to be with you and your audience.

Matt Spielman (03:16):

So about six years ago, I transitioned exactly what you said from executive to executive coach. And what I’d been doing before that, I had several C level roles. So at that time I was a chief marketing officer for a technology company. I’d been a chief revenue officer, a head of sales, a head of business, other senior level roles.

Matt Spielman (03:36):

What I noticed, Rebecca, as I continued to ascend and I was managing more and more people and larger teams and ultimately divisions was where I derived a lot of my fuel and what really drove me was seeing other people grow, develop and thrive.

Matt Spielman (03:51):

And yes, of course, I was driven by achieving our goals around our product or service, whatever we needed to market or sell, but I would seek opportunities to send people to go see big clients or the CEO, or to give them stretch opportunities or additional education in something. And that was really, really rewarding for me.

Matt Spielman (04:14):

And it started this internal discussion, which ultimately translated to an external exploration of how can I do more of that on a day to day basis. And executive coaching, career coaching, performance coaching is really working in service of the other person sitting across from you, sometimes the other team sitting in the room, and sometimes the other organization that you may contract with.

Matt Spielman (04:37):

So that was the transition. And just triggering that six years ago, a little over six years ago, or actually it was seven years ago, I went back to school and I wanted to learn the science behind the coaching conversation and executive coaching. And that started several years actually of really investing in my education and learning really how to do it.

Rebecca Hotsko (04:58):

So I want to touch on that career pivot because you were able to make a successful career pivot in your 40s. And with a sector of millennials approaching 40, or just any of our listeners who are maybe thinking of making a career change themselves, do you have any tips for those who are thinking of making a change and maybe when they’re already in an established point in their life?

Matt Spielman (05:20):

I do, I do. And I like to say, follow the energy. Sometimes we don’t always know what is our purpose, what exactly are we doing, and why can’t I write it down beautifully in beautiful prose on a piece of paper. You know what we can follow is energy and what are the things that we have done or are doing that we enjoy, that engage us, that we’re drawn to, that we don’t necessarily need five or six cups of coffee or hold our nose doing in order just to get through that particular task?

Matt Spielman (05:53):

So I suggest that people take inventory of the things that give them energy, versus those things that take energy away. There’s one particular exercise in the recent book that was published called Inflection Points: How to Work and Live with Purpose, there’s a sources and drains of energy exercise.

Matt Spielman (06:08):

And literally, if your audience imagines on a sheet of paper with sources of energy on the left hand side and drains of energy on the right hand side and a line drawn down the middle of it, there’s a nice template that people can download and use it.

Matt Spielman (06:21):

But it’s go through the things that you do on a day to day basis that you actually enjoy, that you’re drawn to, that you have interest in. It could be a specific task, it could be several tasks. It could be people that you enjoy interacting with. It could be an environment that you find yourself, that really lights you up.

Matt Spielman (06:36):

And go through that for your current job and also for past jobs, and also there may be things that you’ve done out of the office, maybe boards that you’ve sat on, nonprofit boards, other activities. But what we’re trying to get at is, what are the things that really drive you? What are the things that you enjoy?

Matt Spielman (06:52):

And then the discussion then shifts to another exercise that we do called hypothesis generation. So based upon the things that you enjoy doing that you’re drawn to … And by the way, these things could also be challenges. They may not necessarily be easy, not like sitting on the beach, putting your feet up and drinking a Corona. These things, you’re excited by the challenge and what the impact is of the result of the work that you’re doing. What could that look like if different than your current job?

Matt Spielman (07:22):

It could be a re-imagination of your current role, and maybe there’s adding something to it. And on the other end of the spectrum, it actually could be a revisitation of exactly what it is I want to do. It may mean leaving your existing organization and trying something new. But what is the job that embodies as many of the things that give you energy versus those things that take energy away?

Rebecca Hotsko (07:47):

I love that. And I will say that that exercise is one that really helped me in a career change that I actually made, where I did the exercise and I wrote down what fulfilled me most and what didn’t. And when you map out your life like that, it becomes very clear. Even if it’s a hard decision and maybe a risky career change, it really makes everything clear. And so yeah, I can say that honestly helped me a lot.

Rebecca Hotsko (08:12):

I want to ask you about in your career, do you think that it’s more about following your passion and chasing that feeling of fulfillment versus just doing what you’re good at? I believe that it was Mark Cuban that said, don’t follow your passion because your passion might not make money. But on the other hand, if you follow that and do something maybe you’re good at, you’re just stuck in a job that maybe you just don’t feel fulfilled at. So I’m just really curious to know your thinking around this.

Matt Spielman (08:42):

I think that it’s really important for people to cast themselves correctly. I think in the short term, we can almost do anything. I think we can hold our nose and we can really try to do anything and get through anything, and sometimes I almost look at that as that’s a job, that’s some form of a job.

Matt Spielman (09:01):

When I talk to people about this particular topic, we talk about their career, something that is more enduring, something that is more lasting. And we talk about, I use the movie analogy, how do we cast yourself correctly? There are roles that I would really, really like to play, but I may not necessarily be the right person for that particular role.

Matt Spielman (09:23):

And by the way, to your question, I do think there’s a correlation between if I’m not necessarily inclined to do that role and to take on that role, I may not embody it the way I naturally would and gravitate towards it than if it’s the right role for me. So we may have to put in our time for a handful of months, a handful of quarters, a handful of years. And I don’t want people to seek something because it’s sort of, well, I don’t have fun doing it, so I’m not going to do it. I like to steer people away from that.

Matt Spielman (09:53):

And it’s more about, do you believe in what you’re doing? Do you believe it’s a right fit for you? Or do you feel like for your career, you’re going to be swimming against the current, you’re going to swim upstream? That’s a terrible feeling and it’s likely not going to be a high corollary to you’re doing a really, really good job.

Matt Spielman (10:11):

So I think we want to feel good about the work that we do. I think we would like to go above and beyond and produce a really good product. I’ve seen it in thousands of examples over the last six years that may not necessarily be fun for us and we may not be passionate about waking up so early in the morning, so we’re the first one to get to the office, to prepare for a really important meeting on that particular day, but we really believe in the role that we’re doing and what we’re working towards. That’s really important.

Rebecca Hotsko (10:41):

I think that was a good way to sum it up because it’s not always going to be easy or fun. That’s not the point of it, but if you have a sense of purpose, if you wake up and you are excited more often than not to get out of bed and do what you’re doing, I think that is a good indicator that you are in a good place and you’re maybe in the right role.

Rebecca Hotsko (11:01):

So I want to talk about your new book now. You wrote a book called Inflection Points: How to Work and Live with Purpose, which I just want to dive more in with you now. You created a planning formula for success that you use with your clients to help them achieve their goals. And my understanding is that you actually made this public so that other people can use it as well, which I just think is fantastic. And I think it would be really beneficial today to just hear you speak more about this Game Plan System and how our millennial audience can use it to help them achieve their goals too.

Matt Spielman (11:39):

Yeah. And anybody, as you mentioned, can download the materials without even reading the book, although it means a lot more if somebody reads it. And they can go to theinflectionpointsbook.com and there are all these various tools.

Matt Spielman (11:51):

So you mentioned the Game Plan System and what we call GPS and the double entendre is intentional because a GPS provides direction for you and you plug in the coordinates of where you want to go and it provides the most efficient way to get there.

Matt Spielman (12:06):

Part of what makes it a system, because at the center piece of the GPS is a game plan, a single page document that you create or co-create with somebody else in your life or a coach. What makes it a system is before we sit down and start penning our goals or the outcomes that we want to work towards, or the destination that we want to travel to, we need to understand a little bit more about ourself. And I talk about this as slowing down in order to go fast.

Matt Spielman (12:34):

There’s formal and informal information that we gather. Informal information is kind of like what we were talking about before, which is, what are some of the things that we’ve done that really light us up, that really energize us? That really comes from within. And we also may conduct a 360 degree review analysis where we would talk to key stakeholders in one’s life and just get a sense for … We need to get a sense for where we are now, before we start plugging in our coordinates.

Matt Spielman (12:59):

We administer a couple of assessments, a behavioral profile or behavioral assessment called Myers-Briggs and also VIA, Values in Actions, which measures your strengths from one to 24. And anybody listening can go to viacharacter.org and there’s a free version of this and it ranks your strengths from one to 24.

Matt Spielman (13:17):

So it gets a sense for who you are, what drives you, what are you about, to our earlier conversation, so we can cast ourselves more correctly, so we can swim more with the current based upon what we value, what matters to us.

Matt Spielman (13:32):

So once we have this information, almost like a diagnostic process that informs the co-creation or the creation of a game plan, which I’m holding it up for Rebecca. It’s a single page. In this case, it’s a laminated document, which houses four meaningful and consequential goals. And we use the ACHIEVE goal model, which is slightly more robust than the SMART goal model. So each of our goals need to embody the A-C-H-I-E-V-E, and there’s all definitions in the materials that you can download.

Matt Spielman (14:04):

But each of the goals has the what of the goal, the why, and the consequence behind the goal for you. So these are could goals, these are things that you could do that are really meaningful to you, not necessarily should goals that a friend or somebody else says that you should do. And then there’s the specific actions that you’re going to take that work in service of you achieving and reaching your destination.

Matt Spielman (14:28):

We tap into the power of visualization, just as athletes have done for decades. We identify an image that encapsulates and crystallizes the goal that you’re working on. And then there are generally four goals that are there and in some cases they’re interrelated. So working in service of one also increases the chances that you work towards and achieve the other.

Matt Spielman (14:50):

So the third step of the process, step one was gathering information, step two is creating this single page document, step three is executing maniacally against your game plan. And that means some people put it in a place where they could see and then there’s this focus on each day of what are the actions that we can take each day in order to bring this about.

Matt Spielman (15:10):

And Rebecca, what is also really important I have found is sharing this document with other key stakeholders in one’s life, or business related as well, it could be a manager, it could be colleagues, could be people who report to you. It creates this accountability, transparency and alignment, three cliche terms that are often almost overused and not really meaningful. When you hand somebody your game plan, it ceases becoming cliche and then there’s an element of accountability, transparency, and alignment.

Rebecca Hotsko (15:39):

So once we use this framework, we write down our goals, we have our plan in place, we’re all going to feel or have some setbacks at some points when reaching these goals, which can be disappointing and discouraging at some points. But what advice would you give to a client that you’re coaching through a situation like this, who’s experiencing some setbacks on the way to achieving their goal?

Matt Spielman (16:05):

Yeah, and what you’re describing is life and any goal worth achieving is going to be hard and going to represent challenges there. If we go back to the metaphor of the GPS and that we got into our car that was in the driveway, and before we even got in the car, we assessed where we might want to go, we plug in the coordinates and we start on our drive. What invariably happens on our long distance journey? There’s traffic, there are accidents, God forbid, there are other things that get in the way. So that’s exactly what the game plan does.

Matt Spielman (16:36):

And because we went through the process of knowing why we’re working towards a specific outcome, it helps us either go over a barrier, or go around the barrier, or go under the barrier, potentially go through the barrier. And there are times when context changes where that particular outcome or destination, that goal may no longer be exactly what we’re working towards and sometimes we do change that particular destination or outcome.

Matt Spielman (17:04):

And context sometimes, I’m thinking about one particular client and it was super, super important for her to run a marathon in Minnesota. I think it’s called the Minnesota Marathon, or it has a specific name there. And she had never competed in one before. And we went through several, we almost got down to the five whys.

Matt Spielman (17:25):

So what about that goal is important to you? She said, “Well, it really represents a really strong physical fitness challenge.” Okay, why is that important to you? “Well, my father wrestled with health.” So we actually kept on going down to the real meaning and consequence behind it, my family’s going to be there at the finish line, we haven’t been together in a while, all of that.

Matt Spielman (17:43):

Pandemic hit, marathon was canceled. That’s no longer the destination that she was working towards, but because we were clear about the consequence and the meaning of the driver, the why behind it, that doesn’t change, we set another goal for her. And it was participating in another physical fitness oriented activity where her whole family couldn’t come there, but some of her family could come, but it was a modified destination.

Matt Spielman (18:04):

But we got back to the meaning and the consequence behind that particular goal and that’s the strongest bit of advice I could pass along to the audience, when things get tough is remember why you’re doing it.

Rebecca Hotsko (18:15):

That was great because I was wondering about the external versus internal factors that could cause a goal to change. And now I’m curious about how do we determine if a goal just doesn’t serve us anymore?

Matt Spielman (18:29):

Yeah, I think if we’re not making progress, we’re losing energy around it, we’re losing interest in doing some of the activities that are listed in the action items on the game plan, we may want to revisit. And actually, this is something that comes up in my coaching clients about every two weeks, maybe three weeks. I have a coaching session later today with a client and he said he wants to revisit some of the goals in his game plan, he may feel like the outcomes are a little bit less relevant to him. So we’re going to dive in, we’re going to into that.

Matt Spielman (18:59):

And I suggest every two or three weeks taking an inventory of where we are, what kind of progress we’re making against the goals, how we’re feeling about them. And it’s really important. I think that it’s a little bit easier if there is a coach, there’s somebody there where there’s a regular cadence of meeting, whether it’s every week or every other week.

Matt Spielman (19:21):

And I think if somebody doesn’t want to pursue and go down that path, there are friends or other mentors or other people in one’s life that you can share some of these things with, and maybe on a somewhat regular cadence that’s every month or so.

Matt Spielman (19:36):

When you’re meeting with this advisor, mentor, friend, person, have them check in with you or share where you are, talk out loud about these things. You’ll be able to get a sense for the energy level around, is this the most relevant and resonant thing for you and to you right now?

Matt Spielman (19:53):

ut I do think it’s checking in, kicking the tires. And if it’s not built in for you with a coaching partnership, I’d proactively seek somebody that you could bounce these off of.

Rebecca Hotsko (20:03):

Now, in terms of a practical takeaway for goal reaching, I’m wondering what your approach is to winning each day. How can we put our goals into actionable steps every day to achieve what we want to? I’m curious, are you a fan of time mapping or anything like that?

Matt Spielman (20:24):

I am. I’ve heard it works well for some and less well for others and I think that’s a … Remember the beginning part of the game plan is the gathering information about ourselves and how we work and our personality profile. And when I think of the mapping, there’s a certain dichotomy in Myers-Briggs, it’s J versus P, it’s how we go about the world. Those who prefer J, they prefer structure and organization and planning, and those who prefer P are a little bit more free form and pressure prompted. So that may work for you.

Matt Spielman (20:56):

This is actually important to pass along. And so what a coach wouldn’t do is layer on and say, I think everybody should do the mapping. It has to work for you. So if you prefer J, and you prefer a little bit more of a structure, the mapping can be awesome for you and that’s a really good tool, but I’m not going to layer on that particular tool for somebody that may not work for him or her.

Matt Spielman (21:16):

So it’s, what have been some of the things that have worked well for you in the past when you’ve accomplished meaningful things? And let’s find out what those ingredients were, and let’s sprinkle them on the current path that we’re taking.

Matt Spielman (21:29):

How to win each day. So it actually is one of the eight pillars of how to achieve, which is this focus on winning each day. And I’m smiling here, one of the things that I do, it’s very analog, and I’m holding it up for Rebecca now, there are these index cars that I make for each day and I say to myself, okay, if today’s going to be a successful day, if I could register a W for a win for today, what are the three things that I’m going to either start, continue or complete today?

Matt Spielman (22:01):

Those qualifications are because we don’t always complete stuff. So sometimes we start things, sometimes we continue things, most times we continue things, and sometimes we complete things. But there is this, if we have a future oriented goal, six months, a year, two years, sometimes 10 years, that could seem really far off, but what can we do today that will inch us closer to those outcomes that we want to work towards and so that we could register a W for today?

Matt Spielman (22:29):

And you may say, well, three is tough. And I say, okay, well maybe go to four. But here’s what happens if you go to people’s to-do list, sometimes they’re 15 or 20, you may get through three or four and then you look down and there’s 11 or 12 or 13 things that you haven’t really gotten to. And that could be really dispiriting and that could be really demoralizing.

Matt Spielman (22:48):

So I think if they’re really well chosen and they’re like, these are the key rocks for the day, that that’s what we’re going to focus on and the explicit items that we’re going to do to work in service of those rocks and to complete those specific items, that’s really the only thing that we can do.

Matt Spielman (23:03):

And yes, even getting back to what we were talking about before with your GPS, today, as we know in business, the one constant is change and expect the unexpected, something’s going to happen. There’s going to be traffic. There’s going to be something along the way. We may have to go away from this particular methodology of identifying those three or four things that we can do for today. But at least we made them and we’re going to be intentional about our day and there’s going to be a little bit more conviction to our actions.

Matt Spielman (23:29):

And Rebecca, it takes on different forms. I happen to hold up a card I will text in the morning, where I’ve gotten some of my clients to text me, hey, Matt, here’s the three things I’m going to do today. And we could also do it for the week. If this is a really awesome week and you and I are having a conversation on Friday afternoon and you’re recounting the week that was, and you say, this was a really productive week.

Matt Spielman (23:48):

And I say, okay, what are the three or four things that happened? What are the outcomes that happened this week? And then that sets the intention for the Sunday night or the Monday of, okay, if that’s my headline or those are the intentions for the week, what are the key things that I need to do in order to bring that about?

Rebecca Hotsko (24:06):

I’m also wondering, so you have gained a lot of experience over the years working with a diverse range of people, including a lot of high performers, A-list athletes, senior level executive, investors. We mostly talk about investing and markets on our show, but we also want to learn to become top performers in our field and our investing journey. So I’m just curious to know from working with all the people that you have, what do you think are the most frequent challenges people face or struggle with that hold them back from reaching their goals?

Matt Spielman (24:39):

First and foremost is time, I would say. And people often ask me, Matt, you’ve done thousands of coaching conversations, what are the topics that come up quite a bit? And it’s wrestling and wrangling time. So a lot of this whole GPS and even this intentionality about the day and the week, all of that is in the spirit of how do we make the most out of the actually finite time and energy that we have? That is absolutely one of the things that comes up.

Matt Spielman (25:09):

The second thing that comes up is sometimes there’s a challenge or an outcome that may require us to do things differently and there’s a basic human fear of, and a lot of discomfort that enters when we have to go about things in a different way or go to an area that we haven’t necessarily been before.

Matt Spielman (25:30):

And talking about it, talking through it, again, going back to why we’re doing that in the first place of maybe launching a new division or taking on a new asset class or something that we’re not familiar with. So the unknown can be a little bit scary.

Matt Spielman (25:44):

So being really intentional and considered why we’re doing it, how we’re going to go about it. Have we tapped into the requisite experts in there and gotten the information to quell some of that concern and anxiety that we may have?

Matt Spielman (26:01):

But I would say time gets in the way and is a consistent challenge, and also this, a little bit fear of the unknown, I would say. And then also some of the people that I work with, near infinite amount of resources and options and definitely a finite amount of time and energy.

Matt Spielman (26:17):

So again, it’s getting back to what is that they value, what do they want to do and all that conversation that we were having earlier, which is why part of the Game Plan System. But we don’t just sit down and create goals, we need to pour the cement to the foundation first, before we actually build a house. We need to understand what’s important to us, what drives us, what are going to be those three or four rocks that we want to work towards and then understand why.

Rebecca Hotsko (26:41):

So you talked a bit before about how maybe we can map our day better and become more focused on our goal, but do you have any other tips on how we can improve that time part, maybe is it time management, and just help our millennial listeners figure out how they can focus on aligning themselves better with their values, so their time and effort feels more directed in the way that they want?

Matt Spielman (27:05):

Yeah, so there are a couple of things. I mean, it’s a challenge for everybody so I’m not necessarily going to pass along something like, Matt’s got it, he’s got the antidote, he’s has it all. Your audience, they’re high achieving, high performing people and there’s a penchant to take on more than they actually can do.

Matt Spielman (27:28):

And there’s this amazing book I read a couple years ago or a year and a half ago called The Daily Stoic, and in it, I believe it’s Marcus Aurelius was quoted as saying, if you say yes to something, you’re saying no to something else. It’s an immutable law of the universe. And I think it’s being really clear about what you’re saying yes to, because there is an exact opposite of that. We can’t say yes to multiple things. By definition, we say yes to something, we’re saying no to something else.

Matt Spielman (27:58):

I also think it’s important to take an inventory of where we are, and there’s a tool in the book that people can download and it’s called the purpose puzzle to get a snapshot of where we are now. So for the audience, imagine that it’s a three by three jigsaw puzzle, so there are nine different facets or pieces of your life that contribute to how you’re feeling and where you are, and maybe how much more you can take on.

Matt Spielman (28:21):

So things like career or friends, physical environment, finances, health, family, community, et cetera, rounding out nine. And what you’re going to do for this moment right now and maybe the couple weeks leading up to it, so get a snapshot in time of where you are, from one to five, how is that facet or piece of your life contributing to how you’re feeling on that day to day basis? Five being man, I feel really great about the feeling of connectedness with my friends, or one is I’ve lost touch with my friends, I feel alone and isolated.

Matt Spielman (28:54):

So you do this across the nine different pieces. And it’s color coded as well from shades of pink to crimson, very in the middle from one to five. And we get a real snapshot of where we are and where our energy is and what more things we can take on, what other things we might want to do, because again, if you do A, you can’t do B, and if you do B, you can’t do A, or if you do, it’s going to come at some type of a cost. But we need to know where we are before we start making key decisions about what projects, initiatives, or things that were going to take on.

Rebecca Hotsko (29:31):

I also love that book, The Daily Stoic. That was a life changer one for me too. And I really like what you said when you say yes to something, it’s an opportunity cost, so you have to say no to something else. So you have to choose those wisely.

Rebecca Hotsko (29:46):

I want to use this as a segue and I want to talk a bit about how using this framework of goal setting, the GPS system relates to financial wealth building and reaching our financial goals. So using all of these things that we talked about as a framework, how can we use that to set and achieve our financial goals?

Matt Spielman (30:08):

Actually, it works perfectly for that because we can set a financial goal, it could be a number and of course, over the time horizon that we have, and that works really well for this system. It’s not a must have, but I mentioned before that we use the acronym ACHIEVE and one of the Es stands for explicit. So being explicit about the goal that we want to bring about is great. And the other E is the end point or the time horizon, which in finance, we need to know the time horizon. So it just lends itself perfectly. If this is a specific number that we want to get to in a specific timeframe, that’s great.

Matt Spielman (30:46):

And I also think we need to know where that number came from. Is that number going to help us live a kind of life that’s really important to us? Is it to assist with, to maybe take care of our parents? Is it potentially planning for how we want to allocate capital or funding for our grandchildren or for college? But I think it’s getting really clear.

Matt Spielman (31:09):

Again, there’s a consistent theme here, Rebecca, which is where is this coming from? Why is this important? What are our key values? It really comes down to that and that informs what that number’s going to be. And I think it’s great as opposed to a goal where I want to be very comfortable in five years.

Matt Spielman (31:29):

That’s important, it’s more of a mantra and maybe the way it would pass the GPS test is the action items need to be super specific so we actually know how we’re pacing against our goals. But it’s really awesome to actually put a number out there, but understand from whence it’s coming.

Rebecca Hotsko (31:46):

I also want to ask you about if someone’s goal is to maybe get a new position, so they want to get an executive level position or maybe just get promoted, prior to coaching, you had a lot of experience in executive level positions, some of which working in the financial industry. So I’m wondering if you can share any tips for our listeners who are maybe looking for that path?

Matt Spielman (32:09):

Yeah. There are a couple of things that come to mind immediately when you ask that question and it’s find out what the person, or if they’re multiple people that you report to, what is it that drives him or her or them. A mentor of mine once said that you can really connect with somebody meaningfully and it could help inform your actions, if you identify all people are driven by fear and greed.

Matt Spielman (32:33):

I like to take a slightly more optimistic view, there are hopes and there are concerns that people have. If you identify, what is it that let’s say your boss, they really value, what they really want, what they’re really working towards, and also some of the things that really keep them up at night, what they’re concerned about, what they’re afraid of, that can help inform the type of your language, your conversations, the type of projects you take on, how you deliver the projects. So that would be something that I would strongly suggest.

Matt Spielman (33:01):

I would say something that I did before it was branded as a GPS or a game plan is create a game plan. And as an executive, I would take a period of time where I would share with my manager, and if I was part of an executive leadership team or a marketing leadership team, I would say, these are my goals that I’m working towards, and I’m going to share them with you. And I’m going to identify interdependencies and there are people around this table who can be of assistance in helping me bring these about. But I’m also going to get feedback and input on the goals from the person that I report to. And it’s a really powerful document, if it’s agreed to.

Matt Spielman (33:42):

Like Rebecca, okay, if you’re my manager and I report to you and I say, okay, what does kicking butt in this role look like? I may not speak like exactly that, but what does huge success look like in this role? Well, Matt, if you were able to bring about this, this, this, and this, that would be awesome.

Matt Spielman (33:58):

Okay, well, some flavor of that is going to inform my game plan that I put together and I’ll take that back with me. I’ll write those goals out. I’ll fill out the document. I’ll get it back to you and you have a copy and I have a copy and maybe it’s appropriate for other stakeholders to have a copy. You as my manager, you know what I’m working on, and also if I achieve those outcomes, then almost by definition, I brought about something that’s really, really good and I’m a high performer.

Matt Spielman (34:26):

It also helps as a mechanism to, if you as my manager, you want to add more things to my plate, I’d say, hey Rebecca, remember we spoke about these items that I’m bringing about? If we were to swap that in what might we swap out? So it actually triggers a conversation that we have. But we know almost at all times that we’re working on and towards the things that my manager, our group, our division, our company really value.

Rebecca Hotsko (34:56):

I think that’s a great thing for people to ask if they’re maybe even in the interview process, whether they’re getting a brand new job or just they’re looking to see if they would like that position to ask, what does success look like in this role? Because then it can help see if you’re aligned with it. And like you said, if you get the role and you achieve it, it just gives you a sense of satisfaction knowing that you’ve achieved what you talked about that success looks like in the beginning.

Matt Spielman (35:24):

Yeah. If I could add. There’s more remote work that’s happening or hybrid work that’s happening today and it’s probably part of our manager’s … What they’re thinking about is, well, I can’t come to the office and see what everybody else is working on. And there’s a little bit of that insecurity, a little bit of that concern, we’re getting back to before, that may drive him or her as a manager.

Matt Spielman (35:46):

Well, if you have what it is that I’m working on and towards, hopefully there’s a little bit of an exhale there from the manager and a little bit less insecurity about what is Matt working on at this particular moment. And it also informs, whether it’s every week or whatever our cadence is of one-on-one meetings, where it sets the agenda for the things that we can talk about and how I’m pacing against those goals and identifying areas where there may be friction points and I might need some assistance. But in this world where we’re not necessarily all in the same office, all at the same time, it helps our managers if they know what it is that we’re working on and towards.

Rebecca Hotsko (36:24):

I also want to get your thoughts on burnout. So I’m sure at some points, we’ve all felt that feeling of burnout, when we’ve been maybe working too hard or really long hours. And I’m just wondering if you can talk about how we can avoid getting to this point?

Matt Spielman (36:39):

So this is something that people really wrestle with and understandably so, especially the members in the audience who I mentioned are high performing, high achieving and they have really lofty goals. I think going back to one of our points in our previous conversation, which is let’s take an assessment of where we are. Let’s identify across those nine puzzle pieces or the facets of our life are there too many ones and twos and threes, and are we really potentially heading for burnout and we’re not necessarily in a great place?

Matt Spielman (37:12):

I also think taking assessment of is there less enjoyment and satisfaction in the actions and activities that used to bring you joy? That’s a telltale sign that things are changing a little bit. And it may happen over time, so we may forget about it, but there may be something, if you take assessment of it that we used to really enjoy it. We used to like going out and maybe attending a conference and interacting with people, but now it’s a real slog or it’s like, oh my God, I got to go that. And like huh, that’s a sign. That may not be a red flag, but it’s a yellow flag to probe a little bit deeper.

Matt Spielman (37:48):

And where it turns maybe from a yellow flag to a red flag is when it really begins to disrupt our sleep. I experience this in a lot of our clients is the engine or the motor, the RPMs are just way too high and they’re not slowing at night. The engine is not turning off and is lying in bed with the ruminating thoughts and can’t really calm down. That’s when it moves from a yellow to a red.

Matt Spielman (38:14):

And that’s when we need to take it that much more seriously and say, huh, why am I being taxed so much? What’s happening here? Have I gotten away from an exercise routine? Am I not seeing the people who are important in my life? Have I taken on too much at work? Can I not give it the type of effort that I want to for each of the individual …

Matt Spielman (38:33):

There are a thousand different questions that we can ask ourselves, but the important thing is to take notice of them and to ask the questions. The answers are going to be different for everybody, and the questions are going to be slightly different, but it’s really important that we slow down in order for us … If we want to keep going faster, we really need to slow down.

Rebecca Hotsko (38:51):

That was really relatable, I think. I know that I have felt exactly what you described. And I guess I’m wondering, I know it’s different for everyone, but at those points, if you’re just feeling so overworked, it’s probably better to take a step back and not say yes to everything, maybe even say no to some things and get yourself back to a more manageable point. Is that how you would coach someone through that situation?

Matt Spielman (39:20):

Yes. I would want to go back to times when they felt interest in, enjoyment around things that they were doing. What did their life look like then? What were they working on? What did their day and their week look like? So we want to get back to a time that we know worked for them. And almost sometimes also less of the focus on some of the negative stuff and more on a positive time that there’s maybe more of a gravitational pull towards that.

Matt Spielman (39:47):

So it really gets them talking about those particular instances and they may realize, oh my goodness, actually I haven’t seen my friends in about six months or something, or I haven’t really spoken to my mom or my dad in a long time. Or you know what? I used to be working on three projects, now I’m working on six projects. It’s, let’s get back to a time when things were working better. There was never an ideal time, but things that were working better and only across some of the facets of one’s life.

Rebecca Hotsko (40:11):

I really love that we got into this because I think it is something that everyone can relate to and it’s something that people that are used to and want to achieve so much, we often think that, okay, we can handle it. We can take on more and more, but there comes a point where it becomes almost unproductive. And so getting back to that point, it helps you enjoy it and it helps you probably just be better at what you’re doing every day.

Rebecca Hotsko (40:34):

So I’m wondering on the flip side, do you have any tips on how we can reengage with our work or job when we begin to feel disconnected at our jobs, whether it’s stemming from burnout or even on the flip side, if it’s that lack of passion for what we’re doing?

Matt Spielman (40:49):

Yeah. So we spoke at the beginning of the conversation about the sources and drains of energy. And whether somebody wants to make changes in his or her job or not, I encourage somebody to go through that exercise because those are the things that lights you up, that energize you, that ignite you. And what can we do to get back to some of that and remember if we do more of those things that will likely be a good thing.

Matt Spielman (41:13):

And actually, Rebecca, research indicates that if we do about 20% of the things that we enjoy, or that give us energy, if we could do 20% of those things in a given day, that’s about all we need in order to have a meaningful sense of fulfillment and satisfaction from the work that we do. It’s not a 100%, it’s not 80%.

Matt Spielman (41:34):

Marcus Buckingham in his latest book, LOVE + WORK, you see, he calls these 20% your red threads and the red threads in my parlance would be the things that give you energy and the things that you’re doing, specific tasks, the environment that you’re in, the conversations that you’re having, maybe the business trips that you’re taking, the things that you find enjoyable. I would get back to that because that’s coming from within, it’s not necessarily what works for other people, because if it’s coming from within, that’s unique to you.

Rebecca Hotsko (42:04):

Matt, that was so helpful. I know that I took a lot from this interview and I know our listeners will too. Before we close out the episode, where can our listeners go to learn more about your work, your book, this Game Plan System and everything you do?

Matt Spielman (42:19):

So if somebody’s interested in the book, they can go to Amazon and type in Inflection Points: How to Work and Live with Purpose, and you can purchase it there. If you want to read a little bit more about it, theinflectionpointsbook.com. It’s also where you can download these free materials. So you don’t have to buy the book in order to get the Game Plan System. So everything that we spoke about today, somebody could download and that’s theinflectionpointsbook.com.

Matt Spielman (42:45):

Feel free to reach out and connect with me on LinkedIn, it’s Matt Spielman, and at Inflection Point Partners. And yes, there is a website and you can just Google Inflection Point Partners and you’ll see me, I have 12 other coaches on the coaching roster, and some of the work that we do.

Rebecca Hotsko (43:01):

Thank you so much again for joining us today, Matt.

Matt Spielman (43:04):

Thank you for having me, Rebecca. I really enjoyed it.

Rebecca Hotsko (43:07):

All right, I hope you enjoyed today’s episode. Make sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app so that you never miss a new episode. And if you’ve been enjoying the podcast, I’d really appreciate it, if you left us a rating or a review. This really helps support us and is the best way to help new people discover the show.

Rebecca Hotsko (43:27):

And if you haven’t already be sure to check out our website, theinvestorspodcast.com. There’s a ton of useful educational resources on there, as well as our TIP Finance tool, which is a great tool to help you manage your own stock portfolio. And with that, I will see you again next time.

Outro (43:45):

Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to subscribe to We Study Billionaires by The Investor’s Podcast Network. Every Wednesday we teach you about Bitcoin, and every Saturday we study billionaires and the financial markets. To access our show notes, transcripts or courses, go to theinvestorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any decision consult a professional. This show is copyrighted by The Investor’s Podcast Network. Written permission must be granted before syndication or rebroadcasting.