Trey Lockerbie (00:02:58):
And when you find the billionaire that you want to work with, and they’re trying to achieve peak performance, let’s just start by outlining and defining what peak performance looks like. And especially when it comes to when you’re modeling out the brain and looking for certain indicators, and you put somebody under a scan and they show up as is. For example, I’m fairly familiar with blood work. And I know the issue with blood work for example is that you’re kind of getting sort of a one time snapshot. And it could change based on if you slept or if you ate something different that day or whatever. When it comes to the brain, is there that amount of change that happens in the brain on a day-to-day basis?

Louisa Nicola (00:03:39):
Well, there is. So first of all, let’s define what I consider peak brain performance. I started Neuro Athletics back in 2014. And it really came out of, first of all, my love for neuroscience and neurology. And also my love for athleticism. I was an athlete. And I was performing at what I believed was my peak back. So when I look or when I talk about peak performance, I like to define it as being at your best every day and not feeling lethargic or not feeling down. And I’m sure you’ve woken up some days and you’ve thought, “I’ve got brain fog today. I’m tired. Things are just not going well.” Sometimes you can’t manage your impulses or your reactivity. And this all has, we can have a look at this and think well, where does this stem from? And we can see that it stems from more often than not the brain.

Louisa Nicola (00:04:34):
So, what we do first and foremost with all of our athletes and all of our portfolio managers, investors is we put them through a brain scan. So we literally put them in a hospital grade EEG, and we find out what areas of the brain are not performing optimally. So you can kind of think about it like we’ve got the frontal lobe of the brain, which is where all of our executive functions live. Attention, etc. Then you’ve got the side of the brain. I’m not going to go into all the different lobes. I’ve got the occipital lobe, the temporal lobe. If you look at all these lobes, they’re responsible for different things. And once we put somebody through this brain scan, we can find out whether these areas or these different subsections of the brain are working at their peak.

Louisa Nicola (00:05:23):
I haven’t met somebody yet with an absolutely brilliant brain. So we can then go through and say, “Well, this area of the brain isn’t working at its peak. Let’s put you through a program to get it to work at its peak again.” So that’s kind of like my thesis. Everything comes from science and we back everything up with hospital grade technology. So you really can’t lie with some of the things that we do.

Trey Lockerbie (00:05:46):
You mentioned the cravings there when it comes to lack of sleep, which we’re going to dig into a lot more. And yes, I’ve definitely had brain fog. I have two young kids and I attributed to that, the lack of sleep. I want to kind of run some other ideas by you just on that note. And I wanted to see if you had much experience or if you have a lot of knowledge around the limbic system, because I’m under the impression that human brains are highly influenced by even your gut, for example. And you’ve got some cravings that come from whatever that balance looks like in your body, and how your brain can kind of just be looking to solve emotional needs or anything like that when it comes to cravings and all kinds of other stuff through the limbic system. How does that tie into the whole picture there?

Louisa Nicola (00:06:30):
Well, I wouldn’t go too much into the limbic system per se, but yeah, there is certain neurons in the brain that are responsible for are turning on and turning off dopamine, for example. And we know that we’ve got specific neurons that when you have an artificial sweetener or even sugar of some kind, it does have this massive release of dopamine. And it kind of makes you want to have more of that. And your neurons without any fault of your own, it’s just on a subconscious level, kind of craves them even more. That’s why you find yourself reaching for sugary snacks. And this often happens when we are in a sleep deprived state. And the way I like to describe this to a lot of my clients is you always want to shield yourself or your brain so it doesn’t go this default network. So what do I mean by that? Well, I say to them, you always want to be hydrated. Because as soon as you’re a little bit dehydrated, your brain isn’t going to be functioning optimally. You always want to be sleeping well. Why? Because when you’re in a sleep deprived state, you won’t be able to fight off those cravings.

Trey Lockerbie (00:07:37):
Well, now I’m going to open up a can of worms around hydration. So for that, I’m really curious about hydration as well, because Seinfeld had this funny quote, for example, at one point where he said, “I’m pretty sure my body will tell me I want to drink water well before I get dehydrated,” right? So there’s a lot of speculation around how you get dehydrated. What are your general thoughts around that?

Louisa Nicola (00:07:57):
I love this area. So I look at our thesis in Neuro Athletics, we’ve got macronutrients to putting a performance program together. The first one is sleep. The second one is exercise. And the third one is nutrition. We like to outsource a lot of our nutrition because we’re not nutrition based. But one thing that we don’t outsource is the hydration protocol. And hydration is so important, and let me explain why. When I look at hydration, most of us think about water. You’ve just mentioned water, but I like to look at hydration in terms of electrolytes. So our brain, our brain has cells in them. You’ve probably heard of them. They’re called neurons. Nerve cells. And they’re side in our central nervous system, which is our brain and spinal cord. And what happens is with our neurons, what they do is they fire together. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the structure of a neuron. But when we’re having a thought or we are moving or literally just standing upright, our neurons, we’ve got billions of them, are creating these little synapses. So one neuron fires on the other. It creates a synapse or what we call an action potential occurs.

Louisa Nicola (00:09:05):
And for this to actually occur, for two brain cells to fire together, we have this thing called a sodium potassium pump. So our brain is literally made up, the synapses are made up of electrolytes. Because what are electrolytes? When you drink an electrolyte, what is it? It’s sodium potassium, chloride. We actually have these pumps in our brain. So if we are dehydrated, we are going to have information processing speed is going to be lacking. So we’re not going to be as fast to react or think. We might get dizzy depending on how dehydrated you are. So we have a hydration protocol like Neuro Athletics. And we don’t just say hydrate with water. No matter what you’re doing, no matter you could say to me, “Louisa, I don’t go out and run and sweat.” It doesn’t matter. Your brain is such a selfish organ. It is eating up so much of your energy. And the more that you think, the more that you do, the more that you need these electrolytes.

Louisa Nicola (00:10:05):
So I always say it’s like a little hack. You should carry around sachets of electrolytes. You should have them throughout the day. Because the moment that you are just even 1% hydrated, you’re going to have thinking problems. If one of my clients has just 1% of a decline in his information processing speed, or his thinking, or his ability to make sharp decisions, he could lose a lot of money.

Trey Lockerbie (00:10:30):
Yeah. I want to talk about that because you’ve now not only started out advising and coaching star athletes, but now hedge fund managers, billion dollar portfolio managers, etc. And I’m kind of curious what you often find when you diagnose or assess these people first thing. Because a lot of these billionaires I know, they’re drinking coffee all day. They’re drinking Coca-Cola all day. They’re not really drinking water. They’re not hydrating. And I’m kind of curious, what is the typical thing you diagnose first or address first?

Louisa Nicola (00:11:03):
So let’s talk about the life cycle of why somebody would come to me. And it’s generally through referral based. Let me give you a case X study. “Louisa, I’m 49 years old. I’ve been at this game now for 20 years of my life. I don’t know what’s going on. I’m just seeing a decline in my performance. I’ve looked at my team. My software’s working, but something’s going wrong with me. And I don’t know what it is. I’ve tried everything. I’ve consulted with my staff. I’ve even pulled myself out and let other people make the decisions, but I’m still seeing a decline in my own performance. I’m also getting frustrated and I’m fighting with my wife. I just don’t know what to do.” That’s generally when people come to me. People don’t come to me when they’re on top of the world, they come to me when there’s a real big problem. So I go great. Get him in the chair. We’re going to scan his brain.

Louisa Nicola (00:11:52):
And we’re looking for so many different things. We do like I mentioned earlier, we do information processing speed so we can find out how well your brain’s functioning, how well you’re able to make decisions. Fast, rapid decisions. We look at memory like memory decline, mild cognitive impairment. We’re looking at the visual system, literally the entire visual acuity. We’re looking at everything from how the brain perceives a stimulus in front of them, to what it says in your brain. And so many different things come out of this.

Louisa Nicola (00:12:22):
I remember having like you just mentioned, I had somebody come in with 5 billion in asset management. And he was freaking out. He had no idea what was happening. And we found that his brain, let’s just say he was 49. His brain actually looked like a 65 year old brain. And we know this because our scans come out through this database called a normative database where they scan hundreds of thousands of individuals at all different ages and they say, “This is what the brain of a 21 year old should look like,” etc.

Louisa Nicola (00:12:50):
So this guy literally had aged himself many, many. And it was puzzling. Because I thought, how does your brain look like this? So then we go through the next step, which is a questionnaire. So we do a lot of clinically relevant questionnaires and you can get these on medical databases.

Louisa Nicola (00:13:07):
The questionnaire that stood out the most was his sleep questionnaire. So get this Trey. This guy 49 years old from, I would say the age of 30, he has been sleep deprived. And I described sleep deprived as six hours or less per night. And he was sleeping at, sometimes he was sleeping at 2:00 AM. He told me that the market predicts when he’s going to sleep, which is scary for me. He’s like, “I don’t have a set time that I sleep. The last time I went to bed at the same time as my wife. Sometimes I’m sleeping at 10:00 PM. Sometimes I’m sleeping at 4:00 AM.” And that is so scary, especially for the brain. So sleep is a huge, huge, huge thing that we implement. It’s actually probably the first thing that we implement in any program at Neuro Athletics.

Trey Lockerbie (00:13:58):
All right. Well, let’s talk a lot about sleep because there’s so many different, interesting questions around it. And it does seem like it’s the lead domino or the first pillar here that you build off of. So this one I find super fascinating because there’s lots of schools of thought around it, and you see different case studies as well out in the field for what you can tell. Right? So for example, Jeff Bezos, a billionaire we study quite often has been outspoken about how he’s very protective of his eight hours of sleep. He has to get his eight hours. Whereas someone like Elon Musk, I mean he’s almost on this uberman routine as it’s called where you’re napping 20 minutes, eight times a day or something just to fall into quick REM sleep. Six hours or less. Is that a matter of quantity or quality? Meaning if you got 20 minutes of REM sleep, is that worth three or four hours on its own? Or do you really need that six to eight hour window just in one fell swoop?

Louisa Nicola (00:14:54):
Well, there’s so many different things that’s involved. It’s both quality. It’s both quantity. Just to piggyback off those two people that you just mentioned. You look at Roger Federer, he’s sleeping 12 hours a night. You look at LeBron, he’s sleeping 12 hours a night. Plus he’s also including a 60 to 90 minute at nap whenever he can. So, I mean it’s no secret. You look around and you see some of the most successful people. I don’t know if Warren Buffett, I know you guys study him and speak about him often. I don’t know if he’s ever spoken about his sleep. I think 91-

Trey Lockerbie (00:15:24):
He’s 92 right now. And I imagine you take a lot of naps when you’re 92, I could be wrong.

Louisa Nicola (00:15:30):
I mean, who knows. Who knows? But let’s talk about a really famous paper that was put out around two or three years ago in a very high stringent journal. It was called PNAS. What they did was they took a group of healthy individuals. Okay? And they sleep deprived them for one week. So they had a control group. Okay? And the control group was, they’ll sleep and the other group was just going about with their eight hours of sleep. All right?

Louisa Nicola (00:15:55):
The sleep deprived group only after one week of sleep deprivation, which is six hours or less. Oh my God, Trey. The things that they found from this were absolutely amazing. What they found was there was an epigenetic change of 711 genes. You think about that for a second. The human genome has around 20,000 genes. We have 20,000 genes in our human genome, and they’re all responsible for different things. You are changing 711 genes just by one week of sleep deprivation. So if you do the math, that’s around 3% of an epigenetic change just by sleeping, by depriving yourself of sleep for one week. That’s the first thing.

Louisa Nicola (00:16:37):
But this is what else they found. They looked at these 711 genes. And what they found was the ones that are responsible for the growth of new tumor cells were upregulated. And the genes responsible for immunity were downregulated. So this is why when you’re stressed or when you’re lacking sleep, you get sick.

Louisa Nicola (00:16:59):
So I have this theory. Okay? So that’s really scary to know that we’re changing our genome, our actual genes and getting sick and causing diseases by sleeping less. Okay?

Louisa Nicola (00:17:12):
I have this theory and I put out this post. I have a weekly newsletter. I put out this post saying compound interest can be your worst enemy. Because this gentleman that I was speaking about that came and saw me, 49 year years old with a 65 year old brain, your sleep isn’t like a bank. It’s not like where you can pay debt back to the bank. If you sleep deprive yourself for a week and you suffer, this upregulation and downregulation of 711 genes, you don’t get that back. Actually it compounds. So thinking about this notion of compound interest in finance. And this is what’s been happening to him, he’s compounding. So he doesn’t go on a track to better brain health after that one week. No, he does it again. And it’s not like it’s just, okay. 711 genes. Okay. We’re going to start from the start. It keeps compounding and compounding. And what happens over time is you have this underperforming brain and you think to yourself, “Why am I not thinking properly? Why am I making bad decisions? Why can’t I remember faces, and names, and things like that?” That’s really scary. So that’s the first thing.

Louisa Nicola (00:18:17):
The second thing is let’s talk about something really beautiful that happens during sleep. And this goes into the sleep quality. We’ve got different stages. We’ve got four stages of sleep. You’ve probably heard of deep sleep. And you’ve also heard because you’ve mentioned it REM sleep, rapid eye movement sleep.

Trey Lockerbie (00:18:32):
Are these things quantified by waves, actual frequencies of your brain? Is that-

Louisa Nicola (00:18:38):
Absolutely. Yeah. The reason actually, why it’s called REM or REM sleep is because when you go and do a sleep study, which is what I was doing primarily before I started your athletics, you put an individual in a polysomnography. It’s a PSG or a sleep study. And when they’re in REM sleep, you see these horizontal eye movements. Okay? So it looks like their brain, it basically mimics being awake, but they’re completely paralyzed. So that’s why they’re called rapid eye movements and they’re horizon. Whereas when we look at deep sleep, which is also known as slow wave sleep on the EEG, they have these huge big waves like that. That’s why they would call it slow wave sleep.

Louisa Nicola (00:19:21):
Now during this time, so many things happen. And without going into too much of the hormones that are secreted during slow wave sleep, want to talk to you about the it’s called the glymphatic system. And the glymphatic system is kind of like a sewage system, but for your brain. You’ve probably heard of the lymphatic system. A lot of people go and get a lymphatic massage. I know you’re married. Maybe your wife has gone and gotten a lymphatic massage-

Trey Lockerbie (00:19:47):
Even those brushes before you shower, the dry brush, right?

Louisa Nicola (00:19:49):
Yeah. That’s very well done. Yeah. It was only until recently, it’s been about 20 years, which is quite recent that neuroscientists found that we have a lymphatic system in our brain and it’s called the glymphatic system. And this kicks in during slow wave sleep. And what happens during that time is all of the vessels in your brain, they move around. And when the lymphatic system them kicks in, it clears out all of the debris and all of the toxins. So if you are not getting into deep sleep, you’re not going to kickstart this glymphatic system. Therefore, you’re going to wake up feeling lethargic. That’s why we have brain fog. When you wake up and you’ve got brain fog, you’re kind of like, you feel that fog, kind of the dizziness in front of your glymphatic system didn’t kick in. And that’s also scary because this is how the accumulation of plaques happen. And we know that plaques are associated or amyloid beta I should say, which is a toxin. It’s associated with Alzheimer’s disease. So that’s another bidirectional kind of course. Lack of sleep can lead to Alzheimer’s disease. But Alzheimer’s disease also once you have it, you find it hard to sleep. So it’s just sleep is probably the most underrated, high performance tool than an investor or a billionaire has at their disposal. And it’s free.

Trey Lockerbie (00:21:13):
We just had Tony Robbins on the show. He’s got a new book out. And in the book he highlights a study from UC Berkeley where apparently-

Louisa Nicola (00:21:21):
With Matthew Walker?

Trey Lockerbie (00:21:21):
I believe so where they essentially, he said that they surveyed 1.6 billion people or something like that. But it’s not that they act actually logistically put that together. They were just basically looking at the fact that during daylight savings, during that one hour change, they basically saw an uptick in heart attacks and even car accidents. I think it was 24%, this increase just from that one hour lack of sleep. And then when you fell back and you gained an hour, less heart attack, less accidents. Etc. So just gaining that one hour, super interesting. You kind of highlighted for me what sleep is to some degree, especially calling out the two really seems like most important stages. What are the other two of the four stages?

Louisa Nicola (00:22:02):
Well, that’s light sleep. So once we close our eyes, we go into light sleep. And then as we move forward, we are going into stage two. Then we end up getting into deep sleep. And then we move into REM sleep, and then we come back out again into light sleep and we wake up. So I just wanted to also point out the traffic accidents that you mentioned. That wonderful study that was done on NBA players. And what they did was they took a group of NBA players and they put them through a sleep extension protocol. So they got them sleeping an extended I think it was one or two hours per night. Oh my gosh. You’ve got to pull up this study because it was amazing. They saw decreases in reaction time. They saw jump shot rates where people were scoring more. It was incredible.

Louisa Nicola (00:22:48):
So sleep, it’s a drug. It’s everything. And it’s scary because we all know about it. But if money and making decisions is at the forefront of what you do in everyday life, why you skimming out on sleep?

Trey Lockerbie (00:23:07):
I have so many more thoughts on this, but the one that’s on top of my mind is, is this compound interest you mentioned, say the 46 year old who looks like a 65 year old brain wise, is that reversible? Meaning say you change course and you start sleeping more, etc. Are you seeing an improvement on that? Or is that a done deal?

Louisa Nicola (00:23:30):
Well look, that’s a bio marker. And that’s really hard. It’s like Alzheimer’s disease. You cannot reverse mild cognitive impairment or Alzheimer’s disease. What you can do is you can modify your lifestyle factors and slow the process down. So with this individual, I literally said quit work for three months. He laughed at me. He’s like, “Yeah, I can’t do that.” But it was just one biomarker. Okay. So when we look at the sleep deprived state, that’s just one biomarker. So we can’t just say, “Okay, I’m going to get you to sleep for eight hours and you’re going to be fine.” No, we had to do so many other different mentions. We have exercise intervention. We got him completely off alcohol. And look, we re-scanned his brain and he’s not at that 65 anymore. He’s also not at 49. He’s sitting right now. I saw him, I would say I scanned his brain back in January, January 5th around then. And he’s got around a 53 year old brain right now. So he’s going good. He’s going very good. He’s very deliberate every day. But yeah.

Trey Lockerbie (00:24:30):
Okay. So there is hope. Let’s talk about achieving optimal sleep. And I know you for example have what you call a sleep stack, right? Similar to a tech stack, etc. What are the variables at hand? What are the things we can control? And what are maybe some quick fixes if we don’t get that night of sleep that we need.

Louisa Nicola (00:24:54):
So first of all, I think good sleep starts the night before. So let’s just say you go to bed and you wake up. The first thing you should be doing is going out and getting natural sunlight in your eyes, because this is starting your circadian rhythm. We’ve got a 24 hour circadian clock, and it’s really dictated by the sun. And if you’re going to start your circadian clock at 11:00 AM, then you are probably going to get tired at 11:00 PM. So you really want to be really deliberate with getting outside and getting natural sunlight. You can’t get the light from above, just artificial lighting. You have to go out and get natural sunlight. So that’s the first step.

Louisa Nicola (00:25:35):
The second thing is if you are optimizing for sleep, and you really want to start to wind down and get tired at around 8:00 PM, then you really want to stop having any form of caffeine past the hours of 12:00 PM. Caffeine has a really long half life. And I get people that say to me, “But Louisa, I have have a shot of coffee at around 4:00 PM and I sleep fine.” I don’t know if they’re sleeping or sedating themselves. That’s two completely different things. So you really want to be optimizing for sleep for your brain, not just for how you feel. So it would be getting off caffeine.

Louisa Nicola (00:26:10):
And then as you move further into the night, you want to have a three hour window of eating before you actually go to sleep. Meaning if you want to be asleep by 10:00 PM, which is the Neuro Athletics kind of method. We want everybody lights out at 10:00 PM. If we want you to sleep at that time, you really want to stop eating at around 7:00 PM. Because as soon as you have something to eat, that signals to your brain that you’re awake. It starts to release cortisol, which primitively means run run away from the lion.

Louisa Nicola (00:26:43):
Now regarding lighting again, around 8:00 PM I would say at around 8:30, if you can, you want to start dimming the lights so your brain can start to get used to it. Okay. The sun’s going down. I need to start winding down and going to sleep. Because we have this hormone. It’s called the sleepiness hormone. You’ve probably heard of it. It’s called melatonin, and it’s secreted by the pineal gland. But it’s only secreted in response to darkness. So if we’ve got artificial lighting coming in our eyes past 9:00 PM or 10:00 PM, you’re really signaling to your brain that you’re awake. So these are some things that you can be doing. And then look, there’s some other things that I do, some crazy things. If you saw my apartment, it’s like a lab. I sleep on a temperature controlled mattress. So I actually literally control my temperature via my phone. So when I’m in REM sleep, I go down to a cooler phase and then in deep sleep, it goes even colder. And it helps me. I love it.

Trey Lockerbie (00:27:43):
So just on that note, I’ve had an issue convincing my wife about something like an Eight Sleep mattress. Because in her mind, and I think it’s an interesting point to touch on. It’s sort of like we’re looking at screens all day. We’re on our phones all day. Once we get into the bed, I want to analog experience, right? I don’t want to feel like I’m sleeping on some more app technology, that’s reading my body, etc., etc. What’s your take on that? Is there any science based on EMF frequencies or anything like that to be concerned about?

Louisa Nicola (00:28:17):
It’s very low. You get more from literally going outside or flying on a plane, which unfortunately I do once a month. I’m not saying that’s good or healthy. But no look, I’ve definitely gone down that path because I’m actually hooked up to so many things. I wear anything from an Oura Ring or a WHOOP strap. Sometimes I even go to bed with an EEG on, just to scan the electrical signals in my brain as I sleep. This is all in the name of science. I’m not telling anyone to do that.

Louisa Nicola (00:28:47):
But when you look at the science behind temperature, it’s a really big one. And we’ve mentioned Matthew Walker before. And he speaks about this very frequently. We know from the science and the scientific literature, that in order to fall asleep, that’s your sleep latency in order to fall asleep, our core body temperature needs to drop at least two degrees. And depending on what we’ve had, if you’ve had a glass of wine at night, that’s a whole different ballgame we can touch on that. That’s going to raise your core body temperature throughout the night. So it’s going to wake you up. If you’ve eaten close to bed, it’s going to wake you up. The only known to control that is via a temperature controlled mattress.

Trey Lockerbie (00:29:32):
There’s a couple points here I wanted to keep going on. So you mentioned cortisol a minute ago after eating let’s say after 7:00 PM. Cortisol is a really interesting thing I wanted to touch on just kind of in general. But I came across a podcast recently where the guy being interviewed was talking about how your body naturally seems to release cortisol around 9:00 or 10:00 PM. Or let’s say you’ve done an exercise that day and you’ve gotten it out in other ways. But it seems your body has this purge of will do regardless of if you exercise or not, which resonated with me and my wife especially because we’ve experienced an onset of anxiety that is always at 9:00 or 10:00 PM. As soon as we’re getting into bed, it seems like that’s this triggered response sometimes of anxiety setting in. And we kind of looked at that and said okay, that’s a cortisol release, and have gone to take action to release cortisol in other ways throughout the day, which has helped. I’m curious if you come across this, if there is science backing this or what other purposes cortisol might solve or serve us just in general.

Louisa Nicola (00:30:37):
Well. Look again, it depends on your circadian rhythm. But you actually just reminded of a phenomenon that happens I think across a lot of high performing people. And it’s once they go to sleep, they start to think about a lot of things. I got to go to sleep. This is what I’ve got to do when I get up in the morning. And for some reason, it all comes to us during sleep or as we’re about to fall asleep. So you’ve probably realized this. If you’ve gone through a stressful period in your life, you have trouble actually falling asleep. It’s not like you get, maybe you get woken up during the night, but you really have trouble falling asleep. And that’s because your mind is just racing. It’s ticking. It’s just firing. So that’s something that you could be having. It’s not uncommon, especially for athletes. I’m going to talk to you about this neurotransmitter, it’s called GABA.

Louisa Nicola (00:31:24):
Okay. That’s the acronym. And it stands for gamma aminobutyric acid. It is our chief inhibitory neurotransmitter. So inhibitory. So it is responsible for inhibiting those action potentials that I spoke about earlier. So when our brain is going 24/7, we usually have or we tend to have low levels of GABA. So this is why there is a very popular supplement which is GABA that people supplement with at night to help them with a racing mind or help them get over that anxiety. So that’s one way to overcome that.

Louisa Nicola (00:32:02):
Another way is journaling. I don’t know if you’ve done this, but if you’ve ever gotten a journal out, here’s a really good hack. When we think about journaling, we think let’s put our thoughts down and really happy things. I reserve a journal that is specifically for negativity. Meaning when you’ve got all this stuff in your head that’s keeping you up at night, you want to just dump it somewhere. Your brain, you need to release it. And a really good way to do that is through just a negative journal. Just put all of the negative things in there, get it out onto paper, spend five minutes doing it before you go to sleep. It’s like a release. It’s very therapeutic.

Trey Lockerbie (00:32:38):
I’m so happy you brought up journaling, because I have a lot of questions around that as well. So the negative journaling makes a lot of sense, especially at that time of night, just getting it out of your head and feeling like you did something with it. I’m kind of curious about morning routines. And you often find when you study successful people that they have some kind of morning routine. And very often it involves not only meditation, which we should talk about, but also journaling. And I’m kind of curious what your take on morning journaling is. It’s something I’ve had no luck implementing in my life. And I would love to at some point, which is a whole nother topic we should talk about. But my point, I guess my question off the top here is what are some of the benefit fits a journaling? Can you see it in the brain specifically? Does it do anything for memory, etc.? What’s your just general takeaway on it?

Louisa Nicola (00:33:28):
Journaling, I put in the same category as meditation and breath work. So when you look at the human nervous system, we’ve got the parasympathetic nervous system, rest and digest we call it. We’ve got the sympathetic nervous system, which is that fight off flight. And what we’re always trying to do is imagine a sea-saw, we’re always trying to come back to homeostasis where if our sympathetic nervous system is going up like this, we’re trying to do whatever it takes to bringing us back down. And the way to do that is to activate that parasympathetic nervous system to kind of bring it back into equilibrium. And a really great way to do that is by journaling or by meditation, for example.

Louisa Nicola (00:34:10):
So I really like it. We have a lot of our clients on a morning routine, which is very specific. Journaling’s not part of their morning routine, but it’s actually part of their routine. So we do get them to do that a few times a week, whether it’s at night or during the day. It’s usually whenever they’ve got a stressful thing happening, I tell them don’t react. Don’t do anything. Don’t put it on anybody. Put it in the journal.

Louisa Nicola (00:34:34):
But back onto the morning routines, one of the things that we do is first thing is you get outside and you walk. If you can do it for 20 minutes, that’s amazing. If it’s only five minutes, then that’s okay. So you just got to work with what you do, but it is literally get outside and see natural sunlight.

Louisa Nicola (00:34:53):
And then after that, sometimes they come in and if they’re an athlete, I have them visualize. So you’ve probably heard in sports psychology visualization is key. We get them to visualize their day, their goals, their training, whatever that is. But it also works on some of my investors and finance guys. I get them to visualize. And they’re more settled when they know, because it’s telling their brain what they’re doing throughout the day. So it kind of calms them down.

Trey Lockerbie (00:35:21):
Okay. So first thing when you get up, is get outside. I love that. And you also mentioned earlier about just getting your clients off of caffeine in general, which I also want to talk about. That one seems kind of obvious if you think about it, because it is essentially a drug and it has negative consequences. So I’m kind of curious how you supplement for that. Is a walk what you supplement with, or do you make your clients get into an ice bath in the morning to just wake them up? How do you get awake person and get going to start your day?

Louisa Nicola (00:35:52):
Look, if you’re coming off caffeine, it’s going to be a tough process. I actually don’t tell my clients to get off caffeine. They can have coffee. I just tell them wait 90 minutes. Get your body to start reacting to normal things and mother nature first thing in the morning, if you’re going to have a coffee habit around 90 minutes after you wake up. Generally that is well and truly before midday. But the general rule is definitely no caffeine after date.

Louisa Nicola (00:36:17):
But look, that goes hand in hand with what you’re eating, right? Just because you’re not having caffeine, doesn’t mean you can go and load up on sugar. And that’s unfortunately what a lot of people are doing. Even having things like honey is going to, you’re going to get this insulin spike. So that’s another thing that we need to be careful of, which is that whole nutrition subfield that we talk about as well.

Louisa Nicola (00:36:41):
So there’s some of the things that we do as a morning routine. We’ve mentioned night routine. As we mentioned earlier in the very start of the podcast, I said that things such as behavior has an effect on the body and vice versa. That’s where exercise comes in. And when we think about exercise, we look at aerobic exercise, running being good for the brain and brain health because it releases this thing called BDNF. But I’m more interested in two subfields of exercise. The first one is strength training. What we know from the literature is that strength training, literally resistance training. Doesn’t mean you have to go on push weights. Anything that’s providing resistance to your body is going to have massive effects on the frontal lobe. So I keep doing that because when we’re teaching neuroscience, we always say that the frontal lobe is if you just get your palm and you put it up to your forehead, that’s where your frontal lobe lives. Your frontal lobe is where all those cognitive functions reside. Thinking, the way you react to somebody communication. They all reside here. Logic, reasoning. So if we’re sleeping well and we’re doing various forms of resistance training, we’re working that prefrontal cortex, our frontal lobe. So that’s one thing that it does.

Louisa Nicola (00:37:52):
Another thing that it does is it has these protective hippocampal subfields. Meaning that when we train, you can work. When we do resistance training, it works out different areas of the brain around the hippocampus, which we know is responsible for memory formation and memory function. So there’s so many wonderful things that are being exercised during resistance training. And I think we’re really missing the ball mark with that. I think when we hear about exercise and brain health, we only equate it to running, cycling, walking outside. Whilst those things are fantastic, I think we really need to look at least 150 minutes a week of resistance training. So that’s another great thing to be doing.

Trey Lockerbie (00:38:34):
Wow. That’s really fascinating. So basically, it’s pretty well known that if you work out, you think better. But you’re actually saying that there’s real science here on the prefrontal cortex that you’re actually able to see using your scans and using the improvement of thinking actually from stress testing your muscles. That’s fascinating.

Louisa Nicola (00:38:53):
And not just that. You’re also getting a release of these differential growth factors. And they’re known as IGF-1, which we’ve all heard of, and irisin. We’re not going to go through those, but they are wonderful molecules that get released during strength training. So these are just wonderful ways that you can be enhancing your brain health, your brain function, and optimizing your brain performance.

Louisa Nicola (00:39:18):
And then we move into Neuro Athletics. So there’s a subfield of exercise called neuro motor exercise. And this is anything to do with a ball. And when I was studying this, so when I was back in uni and I was studying this, I came up with this drill. And it was back in 2014. And it was a drill where you just get two balls and you throw them to the wall. Okay? I started performing these drills and they were amazing. And a lot of my soccer players were doing it. A lot of my NBA players were doing it. And now I’ve got all of my investors doing it because this form of exercise, which is also known as neuromotor exercise, I call it Neuro Athletics. It’s a form of open skill. And there is scientific literally articles in really high stringent journals that show that open skill movements such as juggling for example, or the board drills. You can see changes in the gray matter of the brain. So you’re literally getting a thicker cortex.

Louisa Nicola (00:40:17):
So that’s brilliant. So then I’ve got all of these athletes and these investors just doing neuromotor work. I tell them 10 minutes a day. They get two balls, we’ve got neuro balls. They get two of their balls. And literally just throw them to the wall, start throwing them to the ground, because you’re cutting them. So you’re getting hand eye coordination, you’re getting learning skills. So your brain has to us to learn the activity. You’re just doing so much to strengthen these sub regions in your brain that are responsible for everything. From making more money, to making great decisions, to having a good relationship.

Trey Lockerbie (00:40:50):
Okay. I’m really fascinated about gray matter as well. And when you study a lot of successful people, you will often find that they have some sort of meditation practice. And I’ve heard that monks have been studied. And by meditating, you’ve actually seen them increase their gray matter in the brain. What does that even mean? And what’s the importance of that? And have you seen that with meditation and/or breath work alongside exercise?

Louisa Nicola (00:41:15):
Yeah. I love meditation. I try and stick to my own field. And we do have a meditation protocol that we use, but I’d rather go into breath work because I think when we’re implementing a breathing exercise and literally getting more oxygen to our brain and activating that parasympathetic nervous system, which is most likely, the reason why I say most likely is because I haven’t gone in and studied it is what meditation is doing. I consider meditation just sitting there and doing any form of stillness where you can just calm your mind down. And I think any form of meditation, whether it’s via breath work, visualization, or just stilling your mind is going to pay dividends.

Louisa Nicola (00:41:58):
And I get my clients to implement this at 2:00 PM, which is specific. Because when I look across the board and I have coaches as well, once we look across the board and we see when most of our clients are having a spike in their I’ll say insulin, for example. We get them set up on CGMs. So continuous glucose monitors. So we can see when they’re going to get an insulin spike, we can check their HRV so we can see what times during the day they stress out. It’s usually around 1:00 PM to 3:00 PM. So I say at 2:00 PM, I want you to sit there and do a specific breath work. We get them to do a psychological sigh, which is a double inhale and exhale. We get them to do any type of breathing exercise just to calm them down for 10 minutes. And I have to tell you, this tool, it’s like they’re God sent. They do this when they’re really stressed out and they’re able to make better decisions. They’re not going to react in a certain way, and just calms them down.

Trey Lockerbie (00:42:58):
That’s actually very surprising to me. I would’ve thought that the breath work would be something you do very early in the morning. And it kind of ties back to that routine or establishing a routine. And I understand how important things like habits and routines are, but I don’t know why. Why does the brain like routine, need routine, and how do you start establishing routine? Especially if it’s a drastic change from where you are today.

Louisa Nicola (00:43:23):
When we talk about things like sleep, the two most common complaints when you go and see a doctor and you say, “I’m having sleep complaints.” The physician will say, “Okay, are you having trouble falling asleep? Are you having trouble staying asleep?” And they’re obviously two different diagnostic protocols after that. However, your brain, the reason I bring that up is because when we look at sleep for example, your brain loves consistency. It loves to be on a 24 hour clock. It wants to be the exact same every day. Doesn’t want to be shocked. And it’s just this lump of fat sitting between our ears that just likes routine, because it’s just like the sun. The sun comes up every day around the same time and it sets. And that’s how we’ve been trained. Back in the cave days when we didn’t have light. And you literally had to train your brain to know when the sun was coming up and run back into the cave when the sun was going. So it likes routine.

Louisa Nicola (00:44:18):
So if you’re going to start anything, if you really want to start a process of getting on the bandwagon towards better performance, whether that’s physiological performance or neurological performance, first thing you need to understand is it likes routine. So you have to be sleeping at the same time every day, waking up at the same time every day. Is that a viable option, especially for a lot of people who have children and other stressors? No, but you can kind of get there.

Louisa Nicola (00:44:44):
With exercise, it likes the same routine. If you’re going to be exercising every morning, which I definitely think everybody should be rather than doing nighttime exercise. You want to be doing it at pretty much at the same time every day. And you kind of want to eat at the same time every day. So it really loves routine.

Trey Lockerbie (00:45:03):
Absolutely. So I was actually a division one athlete when I was in college. And when I would do those workouts, which were unbelievably difficult, you’d be walking off the field shaking, right? Your muscles would just be shaking. And you would be craving an ice bath. And usually that’s what they’d have you go do directly after is jump in this big tub of ice. I’ve heard you talk about how that’s not a great thing to do actually post-workout, but there is a lot of significant study around ice especially, and also heat. When is the optimal time to incorporate something like cold or ice baths into your life or into a workout?

Louisa Nicola (00:45:38):
Well, this is actually where inflammation can be a good thing. So we know that chronic inflammation over time is bad. But when you go and work out, especially when you’re doing strength training, what you’re doing is we know you’re tearing some of the muscle fibers. And then the muscle fibers, you’re creating inflammation. And then your muscle fibers rebuild. What happens when we get cold is it blocks those inflammatory processes from happening. So you’re actually going to block that hormetic response to exercise. So that’s why I say, and it’s in the science to not get into a cold bath within a two hour window pre and post exercise.

Louisa Nicola (00:46:18):
So that’s one thing. You don’t want to block all of the things that you just did. And the famous study that was done was on the hypertrophy of your quads. So we don’t want that to happen, but ice is absolutely incredible. Getting into cold immersion, I’ve written about this. One of the best things that you can be doing apart from sleep for your health physiologically and for your brain.

Louisa Nicola (00:46:40):
Likewise, with heat, okay? We’ve got shock proteins that get released when we’re in a sauna. Just like when we get ourselves in a cold immersion bath, we’ve got cold shock proteins. And these are absolutely wonderful. And they can actually go to the brain as well and have neurological effect.

Louisa Nicola (00:46:56):
Wonderful studies out to show that if you go into a sauna I think it was four times a week for 60 minutes or 50 to 60 minutes, you can mimic cardiovascular exercise. So there was an RCT done, randomized control trial that showed that individuals who were performing cardiovascular training during the day, you can get the exact same effects by going into the sauna. So if that’s what you’re after, then you have to be really deliberate with the temperature and the timing. However, if you’re after just general health, I think the recommendations for the heat is 45 minutes, at least five times a week. Whereas with cold, again, dependent on the temperature.

Louisa Nicola (00:47:40):
So in Australia in Celsius, I get down to 13 degrees. And I have the person stay in there for a minimum of eight minutes. And here’s the tricky thing Trey. It’s not just the temperature of the water. I believe it starts, the timing, when the temperature of the person drops. Because that’s what it’s dependent on. It’s not the temperature of the water that’s going to be determined by great health outcomes. It is your core body temperature. So if the science says okay, with cold immersion, you need to be doing it at least five times a week for a minimum of eight minutes, that eight minutes starts when your core body temperature has dropped.

Trey Lockerbie (00:48:21):
Really interesting. What does your body temperature need to get to? What’s the range you’re looking for there?

Louisa Nicola (00:48:28):
I would say at least four degrees below the average temperature. And you mentioned earlier that you have Tony Robbins. So Tony Robbins, he’s notorious for getting into cold bath or the cold plunge every morning. And he does this as a state of I want to get in, I want to be in a powerful state. And that’s great, but what’s happening on a chemical level is once you get your body into this state, once it’s cold and your core body temperature has dropped, you get a robust release of norepinephrine. Now norepinephrine can act as a hormone in the body and a neurotransmitter in the brain. And as a neurotransmitter, it is responsible for vigilance, and focus, and attention. That’s why you get out and you feel powerful. And on that, it’s a 200, correct me if I’m wrong, a 250% increase in norepinephrine release. So it’s like drugs, right?

Trey Lockerbie (00:49:24):
So Tony Robbins as you mentioned, loves the cold plunge. He also has a cryotherapy thing. I think he gets up in the morning and hits it first thing. And I know you have some different opinion on this, so that’s a matter of seconds being in cold. So maybe just doesn’t have the same effect, but I’m curious, what’s your take on that?

Louisa Nicola (00:49:41):
I only take on that is the science just isn’t there yet to show the same results. That’s the first thing. And the second thing is I try and make a lot of the things that I talk about accessible to the general public. If you look at a cryotherapy machine, I think there are upwards of $400,000 to have one in your home. Second to that, it’s really hard to go out every day to a cryotherapy chamber. And I think especially in New York City, I think each visit costs around $90. And to get the same effects of a cryotherapy chamber as a cold bath, you need to be visiting that cryotherapy chamber five times a week. So you do the math, you do the time. It’s just not viable for a lot of people, and the science isn’t there.

Louisa Nicola (00:50:21):
I was actually involved in a study that was done on rugby players in Australia where as soon as they suffered a concussion, which was for NFL athletes is every game, as soon as they suffered a concussion, we’ve seen that what happens with a concussion is your brain goes side to side. So you’re getting a heating effect of the brain, which is scary. Because if you heat your brain up too high, you die. But we don’t want to have that heating effect. So this study was done where they were implementing as soon as a concussion happened, the athlete would come off the field and you’d put a cold pack on their head. It was like an actual a helmet if you will. But we were doing like cold pack, ice pack on their neck to try and cool them down. And that’s another way, that’s another reason to show you that there is science there to show you that cold immersion is absolutely fantastic for the brain and the body.

Trey Lockerbie (00:51:13):
I’ve heard Tim Ferris talk about this where he mentioned in college, I think he would do a synthetic spray or something before a test. And it would allow you to essentially cram for a test and memorize it, and then go in and perform well. Which brings up just a question around memory in general.

Trey Lockerbie (00:51:30):
A lot of billionaires that we study seem to have a sort of photographic memory. And I’m kind of curious if you have a take on photographic memory just by studying the brain. And if you study people who have something like that, and if there’s a certain profile that matches someone who has something like that.

Louisa Nicola (00:51:50):
I haven’t studied that, but it wouldn’t surprise me because a lot of the clients that I’m working with do have this shocking memory. So it was actually very new to me. I was like, “Wow, you guys.” And he’s like, “Yeah, my memory’s just fine.”

Louisa Nicola (00:52:04):
What I think this is Trey, people think that Warren has these magical formulas that he puts into place. But instead, it’s not that he has a century of experience and knowledge. And I think that’s what it is. A lot of investors start young and what happens over time, and this is like LeBron James. LeBron picked up a ball when he was very young, but this thing called neuroplasticity, which you’ve probably heard of. It’s one [inaudible 00:52:29], together [inaudible 00:52:30] together. It’s like the more repetitive actions of the same thing, you keep building these pathways in the brain, which we know as habits. And that’s via neuroplasticity. That’s what I think is actually happening when you talk about this photographic memory is their ability to keep being on the same topic every single day, day in, day out, day in, day out for many, many years to come. It’s just habit formation.

Trey Lockerbie (00:52:56):
So there are a lot of companies out there that sell things like supplement for memory and all kinds of stuff. I mean, how much do we want to buy into that kind of thing? And what have you found to be credible or not?

Louisa Nicola (00:53:07):
That’s a touchy subject, because the evidence just isn’t there. If they were, every supplement out there would be FDA approved. But I’ll talk to you about what the science does say. And just keeping in mind, this is not medical advice for anybody. This is just science.

Louisa Nicola (00:53:21):
So there are a lot of things that our brain loves. And the first thing is if you look at our brain, it’s basically made up of fat. We know that. And the particular type of fat is DHA. And DHA is one of the three things that comes from omega-3 fatty acids. And you’ve probably heard our omega-3’s are great for the brain, and they really are. And we have this in all of our training programs. It’s like an absolute must that all of our athletes take EPA and DHA.

Louisa Nicola (00:53:51):
So before I move into that, I’ll tell you some of the things that we give our athletes, and I’ll tell you the reasoning why. There’s also another thing that happens in this nutrition world. Okay. Now that we know that the science says okay, great. Taking EPA and DHA is going to help us over the long term. What happens then? Which company do you buy it from? I think that’s where we’re going wrong with marketing, because you can literally go and pick up anything off the shelf and it could be laced with God only knows what. This is why I really strongly recommend that if anybody’s out there and they’re contemplating taking a supplement, obviously from the guidance of their physician, look at the companies. Look at where they’re manufacturing these products. Because I’ve actually gone through, there’s been so much third-party testing being done on some of these things that are sold in CVS and some of the pharmacies, and it’s just laced with absolute crap. It’s scary. And that actually happens with melatonin by the way.

Louisa Nicola (00:54:46):
So if anybody’s out there taking melatonin, sometimes the bottle claims that there’s three grams in there or three milligrams of melatonin, when in actual fact there’s 100 times that in there, you just don’t know it. Because it’s not FDA approved so they can really put anything on a bottle. So you really want to be careful about where you’re going, which companies. So EPA and DHA, there are forms of omega-3’s fatty acids. And they do wonders. One of the biggest things that they do is they help bring down inflammation.

Louisa Nicola (00:55:16):
So we’ve mentioned inflammation before. You get it when you work out. You get it when you’re stressed. Inflammation isn’t a bad thing. Cortisol is like that Goldilocks hormone. It’s not bad. Too much of it, which we know as chronic inflammation is bad. That can lead to neurodegenerative diseases. It can lead to cancer. That can to many different diseases. So we really want to be able to balance out this inflammation. So we’ve got the body inflammation, but then we’ve got neural inflammation. And EPA and DHA goes in and it really helps you with that. So I have two milligrams in the morning and two milligrams at night. So during the day, I’m having a four milligrams of each. So I’ve always got a large circulating amount of EPA and DHA in my system.

Trey Lockerbie (00:56:05):
Two or 200?

Louisa Nicola (00:56:05):
Two.

Trey Lockerbie (00:56:05):
Two, interesting.

Louisa Nicola (00:56:08):
Two grams or two grams.

Trey Lockerbie (00:56:09):
Two grams. Okay. Got it.

Louisa Nicola (00:56:11):
So that’s the first thing. The second thing that I always recommend is a lot of my clients like I said, if you’re having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep, I really love to supplement with magnesium L-threonate. So you’ve probably heard of magnesium citrate and there’s three different forms of magnesiums. But this magnesium L-threonate is really special because this is the only one that can actually pass through the blood brain barrier. So we’ve got this beautiful little protective cap that doesn’t allow certain molecules to go into, which is known as our BBB blood brain barrier. And thank God we have it. Because imagine everything we put in our bodies if it penetrated the brain. A lot of things don’t. A lot of drugs do. But magnesium L-threonate goes through, passes the blood brain barrier, and it really relaxes you. It’s a wonderful supplement that I get some of my athletes to take when they’re traveling a lot, when they’re jetlagged, and when they just want to be able to fall asleep faster.

Louisa Nicola (00:57:10):
And then every other supplement is really coming at the discretion of their lab work. So we get lab work done. They could be vitamin D deficient. We’ll put them on a vitamin D protocol of 5,000 IUs per day. They could be zinc deficient. There’s a number of different things they could be deficient in that we’ll start to supplement. But if I could say, if I could recommend, or if I could say what are the must haves, it’s definitely EPA/DHA. It’s definitely electrolytes like a hydration protocol. And it’s definitely some form of magnesium.

Trey Lockerbie (00:57:43):
So interestingly enough, when you look at a lot of billionaires, I wouldn’t say that they’re often the profile of peak fitness or health, right? There’s a lot of people out there who Warren Buffett for example, eats McDonald’s every day and not the healthiest diet. But obviously one of the smartest guys alive. And a lot of these folks just have such horsepower between the ears that it’s just unmatched. And I imagine a lot of it is just tied to DNA or something hereditary, etc. So it brings the question of for us mere mortals that are just trying our hand at this stuff, what can we do? What kind of improvement is viable that you’ve seen to date?

Louisa Nicola (00:58:23):
Look, if you are coming to me as a 21 year old, you’re going to have bigger improvements than if you’re coming to me as a 60 year old. At the age of 25, our brain is fully developed. So there’s more chance at that age than at 60 years old. But then it comes down to how deliberate do you want to be. How deliberate are you with your nutrition, with your training, and with your sleep? Because this stuff, unlike personal training where you go and you see an effect. You look at your body and you see, “I’m losing weight. I’m going to keep going.” You can’t see that. The effects of neuro training, cognitive training or Neuro Athletics comes at a cost of probably around three months. It takes a long time to really change your brain, rewire your brain, and to get those effects. So there is change, and it comes after a deliberate effort. And it really depends on how dedicated you are.

Trey Lockerbie (00:59:15):
So I wanted to go on record here that while you and I are recording, you are standing. You have a standing desk it looks like. I am sitting, unfortunately that I’m ashamed of. But I hear that sitting is the new smoking, right? We’re sitting all day long. Are you seeing that effect with people? And is that something we should be mindful of as well?

Louisa Nicola (00:59:33):
Absolutely. This is why we are getting things like standing desks. I got to be honest. I only got this two months ago. It’s been the best investment I ever made because now I’m standing more. And we’re going to have to do a whole new episode on training. But there is a particular type of training that’s very well known for longevity and health span. It’s called zone two training, and you can test what your zone two is. But there’s a really famous study that I think it was only released or it’s getting out into the media now within the last six months saying that the recommended dose of zone two for longevity purposes is a minimum of three hours a week. So three by one hour intervals.

Trey Lockerbie (01:00:13):
What do mean by zone two?

Louisa Nicola (01:00:17):
So we’ve got different training thresholds. Zone one is what you and I are in now. Zone two is when you’re exercising, but you can talk comfortably. Then you go to zone three. And zone five is when you’re about to die on one of those ergo bikes, whatever you call them. So zone two training for longevity purposes is wonderful, but this study shows that you completely eliminate all of that zone two training you’ve done by sitting down and being sedentary. So this is why when I read this, I was like oh my God. So I opted in for a standing desk. And actually, I reckon if I timed our podcast now recording and how many calories I burned, I reckon my heart rate would’ve been up there because I’m standing and I’m in this powerful state. And you can probably hear it in my voice. So I think it’s much better.

Trey Lockerbie (01:01:08):
Well Louisa, I could honestly talk to you all day. I find this stuff super fascinating. I do consider myself a biohacker or even remotely close to anything like that. But you’re definitely piquing my interest in all these ways that we can kind of optimize our thinking, which then optimizes our performance. We’ll have to pause here and save it for another day, but I really appreciate you coming on the show. Before I let you go, I definitely want to make sure you have an opportunity to hand off to our audience where they can learn more about you, Neuro Athletics, any other resources you want to share.

Louisa Nicola (01:01:37):
Yeah. No, thank you. I’ve had so much fun being here. Look, I generally put everything out on Twitter, which is just my name, Louisa Nicola. And there’s a link on there in my bio that takes you to my podcast, we have the Neuro Experience. It’s on all platforms. We have a weekly newsletter and also have an Instagram page. It’s all Louisa Nicola. And the sub stack is Neuro Athletics.

Trey Lockerbie (01:02:01):
Louisa, thanks again. Let’s do it again sometime.

Louisa Nicola (01:02:04):
Thank you.

Trey Lockerbie (01:02:06):
All right, everybody. That’s all we had for you this week. If you’re loving the show, please go ahead and follow us on your favorite podcast app. I’d love it if you could reach out to us on Twitter and let us know how we’re doing. You can find me @TreyLockerbie or the network @TIP_Network. And with that, we’ll see you again next time.

Outro (01:02:21):
Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to subscribe to Millennial Investing by The Investor’s Podcast Network and learn how to achieve financial independence. To access our show notes, transcripts, or courses, go to theinvestorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any decision, consult a professional. This show is copyrighted by The Investor’s Podcast Network. Written permission must be granted before syndication or rebroadcasting.