Preston Pysh  4:44  

So what I mean, is he just reading the Wall Street Journal? I mean, did you guys talk about that at all or was it just something that you kind of noticed?

Gillian Zoe Segal  4:54  

It was something that I noticed and it was something that I had heard until I didn’t bring it up, but it was about five years ago because it took me five years to do this book anyway. It was about five years ago that I was in his office last and so I don’t know if he uses… I think he uses a computer to play bridge, but that’s it.

Preston Pysh  5:25  

We know he’s a big bridge fan. I didn’t know that. He didn’t even have a computer there on his desk, though. Now, does he have a TV in there? Is he watching TV? 

Gillian Zoe Segal  5:34  

I don’t remember. I bet there might be. I don’t remember if there was a TV or not. It’s a big corner office, but it’s not fancy in a lot of ways.

Stig Brodersen  5:57  

Yeah, but it’s just one floor isn’t it? That is like the headquarters of Berkshire Hathaway? Is that true?

Gillian Zoe Segal  6:04  

I was only on one floor, but I think there is another floor where there are conference rooms and stuff, because I remember them talking about photographers setting up or something. I was scheduled for 10 to 15 minutes with him so as soon as I walked in there, I had my camera at my eye. I didn’t want to waste any time. It was way too little time for the kind of interview I wanted to do. Luckily, we ended up spending about an hour together so I got all the information in the book.

Preston Pysh  6:47  

Wow. So he gave you a full hour? That’s amazing.

Gillian Zoe Segal  6:51  

Yeah, he is a great guy. I got to ask him everything I wanted to ask him, except about the computer.

Preston Pysh  7:03  

It’s funny in his shareholder letters, at the end of his shareholder letters, he always, in a passive aggressive way, brags about how small his headquarters is. What is it? It’s like 30 or 40 people? Stig?

Stig Brodersen  7:14  

I can’t remember but that seems about right. You wouldn’t believe that it is one of the biggest companies in the US when you’re looking from the outside. I don’t know about the inside?

Gillian Zoe Segal  7:24  

Absolutely not. I actually just recently went to Bloomberg Headquarters. That was like out of a science fiction movie. You’re surprised at anyone’s walking. You’d expect they should all be on segways or something.

Preston Pysh  7:41  

That’s a great point because you look at Berkshire, I’m pretty sure their market caps are over 300 billion. So when you think of that, their market cap is over $300 billion, and they’ve got like 30 or 40 people working in the headquarters. That’s just mind blowing. It’s just insane.

Gillian Zoe Segal  8:02  

He keeps it simple. He speaks a bit about this in the essay here. He is a big delegator. He really pays close attention to the people he delegates to. He’s a great judge of character, if I don’t say so myself.

Preston Pysh  8:23  

I like that you’re so smooth. That gets to the question I was actually going to ask was what you’re hitting on here. :Let me just read this question here. In your book, one of your main points that Warren Buffett made during the interview was that most people go through life using up a very small part of their potential. 

He said that the people that function best were the ones that were efficient opposed to the ones with the biggest engines. So based on your interview, how do you think that became so efficient? How do you think he finds these people that are so efficient? What is he really looking for that describes that?

Gillian Zoe Segal  8:56  

He has great intuition. He finds people who he trusts and he is such a remarkable person that I think he makes everyone want to make him proud. Everybody cares what he thinks. I think that it works both ways that people feel good, probably that he trusts them and gives them responsibility. They don’t want to let him down. 

He says something in my interview with him, “It’s important to realize that other people are going to make mistakes” and he’s made mistakes. With his managers, he just has to decide whether they know what they’re doing overall or not.

Preston Pysh  9:49  

I really like that point, because I see so many leaders have this zero defect environment that they try… that no one can make a mistake and if you make a mistake, you’re done. You really see that a lot in large organizations, robust organizations that there’s this zero defect environment. I think that you’re actually setting a standard for people to lie to you, for people to tell you whatever in the world it is that you want to hear, opposed to what the truth actually is. 

When you see somebody like Buffett sitting up there at the very top of such a large organization, and he’s saying, “You’re going to make mistakes, and when you do, come and tell me, we’ll work through it. We’ll figure it out.” I mean, that’s really what you’re getting at. It’s amazing that more people don’t adopt that. It’s just crazy to me.

Gillian Zoe Segal  10:39  

In the interview, he said, “I’m not big on blame and by other people’s standards. I’m probably quite tolerant of our manager’s mistakes.” He doesn’t want to blame people, because he knows he makes mistakes, too

Stig Brodersen  10:52  

I don’t think he has all the options, like he wants to run a really small operation. I think it’s almost impossible if he has to micromanage. If he wants to have this very small operations, he needs to trust people. It’s out of necessity, but I also think it’s the way that he looks at a business to be honest.

Preston Pysh  11:15  

Yes. His direct companies that he owns operationally, I want to say are close to 70 businesses. That’s just crazy when you think about it, and then you’re not even talking about the non-operational subsidiaries like Coke and IBM, and some of those other ones that he’s actively involved in, but he’s not managing because it’s just a passive role.

Stig Brodersen  12:05  

Let’s take the next question. So I once read a story about Warren Buffett, and he was emphasizing the importance of learning to ask the right questions. He tells a story about a person standing next to a dog and a stranger. 

The stranger asks the person if the dog bites? The person said, “No.” The stranger reached down and petted the dog. The dog bit him. Alarmed, the stranger said, “I thought you said the dog doesn’t bite. The man said, “Well, that’s not my dog.”

So Jillian, you interviewed 30 of the most successful people, you know, in the world, and very few of us could have the only dream to have access to these people. So how do you come up with the questions that you have to ask them? What’s the process for preparing for the interview?

Gillian Zoe Segal  12:57  

Here’s what I did. I looked everybody up. I prepared as well as I could.But really, I think if all I would ask them about was the stuff that was already out there, what good would that do?  

I looked them up to know as much as I could, but then I made sure to ask open-ended questions so I could learn new material. I think that’s something people have to do in life. You have to not always talk about yourself and just listen to others because you get some great things when you do that. 

Preston Pysh  13:44  

Okay, so I got a question off the cuff here. One of the people that you interviewed was Sara Blakely, who’s the billionaire that founded Spanx. I recently saw that she wrote an article, how you landed your interview with Warren Buffett based on some of the advice that Sarah gave you. Can you talk to our audience a little bit about that?

Gillian Zoe Segal  14:04  

All right, well, first of all, Sara Blakely is incredible. She wanted to be a lawyer her whole life. Her whole life was geared towards that her father was a trial lawyer and that’s just what she wanted to do. She knew she was going to do that. Then she bombed the law school admissions test twice. The first time she studied, picked herself off the floor and took it again. She did one point worse than she did the first time so she was not feeling too great. 

She ended up getting a job loading rides at Disney’s Epcot Center Then she spent eight years working for a company that sold fax machines door to door. It was during that period that she had her aha moment. 

She was trying on a pair of white pants and she thought that it would look better if she had some kind of control top pantyhose underneath. The only problem was they didn’t make those without the feet. So she just wanted the top. 

She invented something called Spanx, which is basically footless control top pantyhose. It’s evolved into a lot of different things since then. It’s a shapewear company, but every single lady knows what this is. Every single man has been out with a lady wearing Spanx, unbeknownst to them.

Anyway, Sara is such a gutsy person. She started her company with her guts, basically. It was hard for her to even get a prototype of Spanx made. She would kind of camp out at the mill owners in their waiting areas, because nobody would even take her call. Then when she finally got her prototype made, she convinced the buyer at Neiman Marcus to order her product by taking the buyer into the bathroom, and showing them what her butt looked like with and without Spanx. 

Preston Pysh  16:21  

It was totally off the cuff from reading this in the book, it was amazing, because she talked about how hard it was to get into one of these interviews, but then she just had this opportunity where she had a buyer and she just took them into the bathroom. She pulled off the moves. It was just like life changing.

Gillian Zoe Segal  16:43  

Yes. I was impressed with her and inspired by her. I was at an event that Warren Buffett was at. I wanted to approach him to get him for my book. I’d already been rejected by his office once so it was a little bit uncomfortable to go up to him. It wasn’t even like we were supposed to go up to him. I was nervous but I thought to myself, “Sara Blakely would do it, she would not let this opportunity pass.”

I just knew if I didn’t do it, I wouldn’t want to face her again. I also would feel so bad about myself. The least I had to do was ask. So I went up and I asked him really quickly. Basically he just said, “Get in touch with my office.” I had to send all of the information about what the book was and everything. I got in that way.

Preston Pysh  17:47  

This is a story of persistence. If there’s one thing to take away from the first story with Sara Blakely, and then the story with Gillian getting the interview with Warren, it’s all about being persistent. 

You heard her say, “I have already asked and I was denied.” 99% of the people out there would say, “Well, he’s inaccessible. I cannot get an interview with Warren Buffett because I tried. I asked and they said no.”

You just kept at it and I think that’s the biggest key. When you go through all the interviews in your book, one of the main themes that I saw was that these people are persistent. They don’t take no for an answer. They just keep at it. It’s a fantastic point. It’s really representative of yourself as well, Gillian.

Gillian Zoe Segal  18:33  

Thank you. If I had to say one theme or one characteristic that everybody in the book has, it’s resilience. They get knocked down, they get back up again. If you keep doing that enough times, one of your ideas or effort is going to pay off. You just have to be resilient. You have to know that failure is just part of the process. 

Kathy Ireland has a quote, which I just love. She says, “If you’re not failing, you’re not trying hard enough.” It’s just good to remember that when you fail. 

Stig Brodersen  19:26  

What about you, Gillian? Were you so determined that you wanted to have Warren Buffett in the book that you would just keep on trying until he got him on the book? What was your strategy for that? Actually, how long can you do this?

Gillian Zoe Segal  19:42  

Here’s the thing, you have to make a balance between being persistent but you also have to be polite and you also have to have  a monitor. So if you get a real note from somebody or from the real decision maker, like one of the gatekeepers, then you might take it as a no. You might wait a while, then try again, but you don’t want to be an annoying person. That’s something you’ve got to look out for. 

However, somebody told me very early on and in the process, a friend of mine named Steve Cohen, said don’t take a no from someone who can’t give you a yes. 

So if you get a no from somebody’s publicist or someone’s assistant or whatever, don’t really take that so seriously, because you don’t know whether the real decision maker ever even saw your request like we were discussing with Warren Buffett. These people are very busy and they have to delegate so some people screen requests for them. 

It’s not a scientific process, they might screen out a request that the decision maker would have said yes to. I always say if you can’t get in the front door, try the back door. If that’s locked, try the side door. If that’s locked, try climbing in a window. If you can’t do that, then try the front door again, because someone might answer this time. 

Preston Pysh  21:25  

The key is there’s a lot of ways to get in. That’s what you’re really getting at with your analogy is, people just try the front door. Typically, that’s the hardest one to get in. Stay persistent and get creative with the way that you will approach it. 

Gillian Zoe Segal  21:41  

If somebody’s publicist says no, try calling their office or the business that they run, you just have to try getting in anyway. In the end, you could only lead a horse to water. So you just have to make sure that the horse saw the water. 

What I mean by that is you have to make sure that the decision maker really saw your request. With a lot of these subjects, I was rejected so many times when I finally got in. The person never knew I had even asked before. 

That happened with Frank Gehry, the architect. I was rejected four times. Two times on my own and two times via someone who knew him. Then one day, I just decided emails are free. I’ll send another one to the address listed on his website. Somehow I got in that way.

Preston Pysh  22:41  

Here’s the real message for the audience because I don’t think everybody out there is going to be trying to write a book with all these different celebrities in it. The key point for you who’s listening to this, is if, say, there’s a job you want to go get, or let’s say that there’s something that you’re really desiring, there are these gatekeepers.

Whatever it is, you need to listen to this tale. This story of persistence to go out and just find these interviews with people that most people don’t even get one interview with would be… Somebody might try one to five times and they wouldn’t get it, the whole book would be done. You’ve got to stay persistent and you gotta stay consistent. You got to be very systematic in the way you do things. 

Gillian Zoe Segal  23:47  

Well, the good thing is I was doing a book on this very subject. Just every person I met kind of kept me going in the process of making the book. 

Stig Brodersen  24:21  

Gillian, one of the main goals for writing this book was to figure out whether success was a prerequisite for some people, or whether it was an acquired personal skill set likes and acity and strength infused from experiences. What is your conclusion based on these interviews?

Gillian Zoe Segal  24:38  

Well, my conclusion is that I think you are born with a certain disposition and you’re probably born with certain natural strengths and weaknesses, but if I thought that that was that and your fate was sealed at birth, I wouldn’t write an inspirational book like this. 

I think you’re born with this kind of skill set and then you have to know how to reach your potential from what you’re born with. I think there’s a tremendous amount that you can do and that you can learn. It’s like a nature versus nurture question. I believe in both.

Warren Buffett talks about your circle of competence. He says that you’ve got to do something that you’re passionate about, you have to pursue something you’re passionate about. But you also have to pursue something that is within your circle of competence. 

What he means is that no one is good at everything. You’ve got to know your strengths and weaknesses and pursue something you’re skilled at. The most important thing in terms of your circle isn’t how large it is, but it’s how well you define the perimeter. 

If you know where your edges are, you’re way better off than someone who has a circle five times as large, but is very fuzzy about the borders. He actually quotes his friend, Tom Watson, the founder of IBM, who said, :I’m no genius, but I’m smart in spots and I stay around those spots.”

Preston Pysh  26:24  

George Soros is really big on saying that as well. He says that he’s very good at knowing whenever he’s wrong. He attributes most of his success to the fact that he can attribute that, but that’s just a side note.

Gillian Zoe Segal  26:37  

In my book is a good example of this, because everyone in my book was selected because they’re at the top of their field, but you could not interchange them all. So someone, different artists and different people… Not everyone would do so well, if they were in the other person’s business. They’re all pursuing something that they’re passionate about and good at. That is why they’re successful.

Preston Pysh  27:06  

So Michael Bloomberg attributes a lot of his success to being an early riser. He has a really funny story in your book, where he’s talking about coffee and tea. Can you tell that story to our audience because I think they’ll really eat it up?

Gillian Zoe Segal  27:24  

Yes, okay. Well, one thing that a lot of people don’t know was that early in his career, Michael Bloomberg was fired. He worked for Salomon Brothers, and he loved it. But after 15 years there, they sold the company. They restructured and he got the bush, and no one came running to give him another job. That is why he started his own company. That’s a great story in and of itself. 

But well, he was starting his company and he wanted some feedback. So he used to go to the coffee store across from Merrill Lynch’s headquarters at six in the morning, and he’d get a coffee with and without milk. He’d get a tea with and without milk. He’d put them in a tray. Then he would go roaming the halls of Merrill Lynch, looking for an executive who was sitting alone reading the paper. He’d pop his head in the door, and he would say, “Hi, I bought you some coffee, can I bend your ear because he wanted feedback on his business?”

He says, “No one’s going to kick you out if you bring them a coffee. If the person said, I don’t drink coffee and say, well, then I have tea.”

What I love also about this story, he’s also got that hutzpah and guts that Sara Blakely has. It also shows that when you’re starting your own business, don’t think you’re above anything. Walk around delivering coffee and tea if you need to get what you want or to help your business.

Stig Brodersen  29:44  

Gillian this question is also about Warren Buffett, at least partly. So despite all his wealth, it’s clear from the interview that he’s extremely humble and he rather says that America has been fortunate to reward him for his unique skill set than saying he deserves his wealth from working harder and being better than other people. 

You also find that Michael Bloomberg gets his drive from people saying what he can and can’t do. So all of these questions must have made a great impact on you. Who has made the biggest impression on you and why?

Gillian Zoe Segal  30:27  

That’s a great question, but a tough one, because it’s sort of like asking me to pick my favorite child. I love everyone who’s in the book. I pick them all, because they’re so inspirational. I admire them. 

However, I think it is hard to have Warren Buffett in a book, but since we’ve talked about him a lot, I’m going to talk about someone else. That’s J. Craig Venter. He is a scientist and the first to sequence the human genome. What that means, because I didn’t really know exactly what that meant before I researched him. Reading a genome is basically reading a human’s DNA, and to see what it has to say, and the meta medical possibilities that this information can lead to are endless. 

Basically, if you know what genes a certain person has, and you understand what that means, you’ll know how likely someone is to develop a certain disease. If they do develop that disease, what you should do, what kind of treatments will respond best to that. He has just an incredible story. 

Number one, every single person listening here benefits from this information. Every time you go to the doctor, it’s brought a whole new level to the medical profession with what they can see and how they can help us. 

Preston Pysh  32:07  

Are they designing just different medicines around the fact that they understand how the DNA is constructed? Is that what you mean by that?

Gillian Zoe Segal  32:16  

Everything basically is stemming from this now. It was a big breakthrough. A huge breakthrough for diagnosing. It used to be that the doctor would look at you and take your blood or whatever. Now they can look at your DNA. It’s just another step, not just your blood. 

Anyway, you would think that this genius scientist would have been a good student growing up but J. Craig Venter, he slid by high school on a D minus, literally.

The only reason he graduated is that they made him write an extra paper so they didn’t have to see his face again because he just spent his time sitting in the back throwing spitballs at the teachers. He said one of his friends was an actual member of Hells Angels. He had been left behind so many times. He was way older than Craig but that’s who he hung out with. 

Then when he graduated, he had no intention of going to college. He moved to Southern California to be a surfer and his job was putting price tags on toys at Sears at night.

Then the war in Vietnam got in the way of this and he got drafted. Before you knew it, he was shipped off to Vietnam. He was in the medical corpsman school. What he saw there was really overwhelming. He saw hundreds to 1000s of people his own age dying.

He didn’t really believe in what America was doing there. So it was really tough for him. Hetried to actually commit suicide. He describes this all in the book. In the middle of his attempt, he realized that he wanted to live. He actually saw a shark. He was trying to drown himself and he saw a shark.

Anyway, you have to read it in his own words in order to get there. This changed him and he decided that he wanted to live. He decided that he wanted to help people. He was going to become a doctor. But then he decided mid process that if he was a scientist to help more people.

Preston Pysh  35:13  

How old was he at this point? Most people, if they don’t start going down that path by 25to 30, the amount of friction involved in achieving what he’s achieved is very difficult. He sounds like he was kind of at that age. He was maybe in his late 20s when this happened?

Gillian Zoe Segal  35:31  

He’d been in Vietnam and then after the war, he went back and he started in a community college. He said he had to learn how to learn for the very first time, because he pretty much, as you could tell by the D minus, ignored school. 

Though he was a super brilliant person. He just wasn’t into school. He actually jokes that he came out of the education system with his curiosity and imagination intact, because he avoided the education system.

Preston Pysh  36:28  

Let’s transition into a different person. There was something that this lady said in your interview that just blew my mind. I really liked it. She’s a very famous artist. Her name is Marina Abramovic. She had this quote, where she had this professor in college whenever she was learning how to be an artist. 

She said, “In Postgraduate School, I had a special professor who told me something I will never forget. He said, ‘If you draw with your right hand and become so skilled, that you can even close your eyes and make any kind of drawing, immediately change to your left hand.'” 

Then she said, “Repetition will kill you.”

Can you explain this conversation to our audience and maybe add some more context because I loved this quote, this is probably one of my favorite quotes in the whole book.

Gillian Zoe Segal  37:17  

Our world is always evolving and changing. That’s what’s necessary for growth. If you just kept doing the same thing over and over again, where would we be? We’d be back in the Stone Age. People have to keep doing new things. 

The main thing that stops people from trying new things is the fear of failure. If an artist gets some recognition for a certain kind of art, but just does that to death… The message is it’ll kill you. We need to evolve and you need to not be afraid of failing to do that. 

She says that sometimes she’s tried things that have been terrible, that have flopped, but that’s just part of the process.

Preston Pysh  38:17  

It’s a function of comfort. A lot of people do something and they get good at it. But like it says you’re there with your right hand, and you’re so good at it, you can close your eyes, and they get comfortable. Unfortunately for a lot of people, they lose sight of all the other things that are out there that they could potentially do and be successful at, because they never try it. They never step out of that comfort zone.

Gillian Zoe Segal  39:30  

One of the big themes in my book is that you’ve got to question everything, but you have to expect resistance to new ideas and approaches and there are so many examples of this in my book. The architect Frank Gehry says he was always questioning everything. 

Early in his career, people were not reacting well to this because people get threatened. Buy something new and different people are comfortable doing things the same way. If you do something different, it’s almost like it’s a threat to other people’s comfort and their way of doing things. It takes a while to sort of get used to it. 

Frank was called in by his architecture professor during the second year of architecture school. The guy said to him, “Listen, I think you should get out of this field. You’re never going to make it.” Can you imagine?

When Frank Gehry started his own practice, he was on the verge of bankruptcy for a long time. All of his colleagues, they were all very dismissive of him. They made fun of his work, because it wasn’t what they learned in school. It wasn’t what architects should be doing. A lot of people care about what you should be, or that’s not the way we do things. 

Another example is Muhammad Yunus. He grew up in Bangladesh and the country was in a really terrible state. Back then, there were people dying in the streets. There was a famine. He decided that he could help a lot of these people by lending them a tiny, tiny amount of money, it could change their lives. 

He wanted to start a bank that would lend tiny amounts of money to really poor people. No one was in on that and on this with him. They all said, “Say goodbye to your money, this will fail, this will fail”

 Well, he started this bank anyway. It’s called the Grameen Bank, and he won a Nobel Peace Prize for it. It was a success. He says that if you observe something that bothers you, you should just make your own action plan to fix it. 

There are many things that are designed in the wrong way and you shouldn’t think that other people know more than you. Your theory might be right, and you can become a new expert.

Stig Brodersen  42:06  

That’s really, really beautiful. I really love that we talked so much about the education system, even though that seems like a lot of the most successful people apparently just fail. That’s really motivating for students out there. 

We have to say in the education system that the good student knows the answer, but the brilliant student asks the questions. I think that’s really something to think about. 

Preston Pysh  43:23  

Every one of them are creators. That’s the thing, they’re all creating something very big. Even some might argue that Warren Buffett didn’t create anything, he’s just an investor, I would totally disagree with that. He’s a person who is creating. He created Berkshire Hathaway.

For anyone who knows the history of Berkshire Hathaway, it was a textile business. It was on the verge of going bankrupt, then he came in and created it into what it is today. It’s amazing what he’s accomplished with it.

Every one of these people created something very unique, and whatever their field is, and that’s why they’ve isen to the top.

Gillian Zoe Segal  43:59  

A lot of people in the book were kind of bashing the education system, but everybody in this book would say that education is really important. One of the things that Warren Buffett thinks is the most important skill a person can have is good communication skills, both in writing and in your speech. There’s a lot of ways to learn that, but certainly in my case, I learned a lot of that in school and in law school.

Preston Pysh  44:35  

Gillian, tell the people what you wrote in the book about what he has on the wall, what diploma he has on the wall and in reference to your comment?

Gillian Zoe Segal  44:44  

Okay, well, up until the age of 20, Warren Buffett was petrified of public speaking and when I say that, I mean he would literally throw up at the thought of having to get up in front of a crowd and say anything.

He arranged his whole life so he would never be in this situation. If there was a class in business school or something, he just wouldn’t take it. 

He one day forced himself to sign up for the Dale Carnegie public speaking school. He has this certificate from that $100 class on his wall. He says that this $100 certificate has had more of an impact on his subsequent success than any other degree he has because it really taught him communication skills.

What’s really essential, no matter what business you’re in, is getting other people to follow your ideas. So if you’re a salesman, you want people to buy what you’re telling them to buy. If you’re a manager, you want them to follow your ideas in business.

Anyway, he talks about the importance of this. I think education in school can really help this, but so many other things can. I’ll tell you one thing, one of the most surprising things I learned in doing this book is how many of my subjects credit early jobs in sales for giving them the skills they needed for their ultimate success. One of these skills is being a persuasive communicator.

Preston Pysh  46:43  

That’s Mark Cuban’s biggest point in his book that he wrote is that if you’re a person who came out of sales, he immediately likes you, because that’s kind of where he got his start in sales. 

I want to highlight too that Julian talked about how Buffett had this Dale Carnegie certificate in his office, he does not have my understanding. You can correct me if I’m wrong, but he does not have his diploma from Columbia, or anything else hanging on the wall is just that certificate, and then a picture of his dad. Is that right?

Gillian Zoe Segal  47:16  

Well, I think he probably has some other pictures and things but he has no other degrees or anything. That’s it, no business school, no college, nothing.

Preston Pysh  47:27  

I want to ask this one. This will be our last one. The question that I got for you really relates to your interview with Anderson Cooper, because I found this interview with him really fascinating. 

I had a preconceived notion about Anderson Cooper, I thought because he came out of the Vanderbilt family and that he had all these connections, and that’s how he landed his position at CNN. He’s basically from the family in the background that had all the connections for him to get to where he’s at. That was my preconceived notion. 

Then after I read this interview that you had in your book, I was floored at what I was reading and how he got his start. I’m just going to give a quick thing here. So he definitely was not your typical case, specifically, his brother’s suicide and his father’s death played a huge role in his achievement, and how it basically flushed out any fear that he had in his life to be able to do some of the things that he did. Can you tell our audience a little bit about his story and some of those finer points?

Gillian Zoe Segal  48:34  

Basically, his father died when he was 10. When he was 21, his 23 year old brother jumped off the terrace of his penthouse apartment as his mother pleaded for him to stay put. He had a lot of tragedy in his life. I think he wanted to sort of be around other people who had gone through tragedies and survived. He sort of wanted to see how they did it, which is why a lot of his career has been going to different war torn countries and being around these people, because he can really identify with them.

Another thing about him that was really surprising is you think that because of his family’s wealth and connections, that he would have gotten in on connections, but the truth is that he could not get an entry level job at any of the major networks after he got out of college. 

He went to Yale. He went to a top school and had a wealthy family, but still he couldn’t get an entry level job. So he ended up hearing about an agency that produces youth oriented programming for high schools called Channel One. He got a job as a fact checker there. But really, he wanted to be a foreign news correspondent. 

He quickly realized that when you do a job at a company, people just tend to pigeonhole you in whatever role you’re in. If you want to do something different, you have to make that happen yourself. You have to either specifically ask, and if that doesn’t work, you’ve got to do something drastic, sometimes, he says, to change people’s perception of you. 

What he did is he quit his job and he went overseas. He lived on $5 a day sleeping in roach-infested hotels and rooftops. He shot his own stories and he made them as interesting and dangerous as possible, then offered them back to Channel One for such a low price that they couldn’t refuse. That is how he broke into the business.

Preston Pysh  51:04  

During this time, he wasn’t on contract with this little high school news company. He just basically said, “I’m not a fact checker, I am going to be on the show.” He just up and left, like, basically quit his job completely and goes over there paying on his own dime to shoot this stuff with his own little handheld cam recorder. 

Gillian Zoe Segal  51:30  

Yes, that’s exactly what he did. I think that no matter what field you’re in, you have to be an entrepreneur. He’s a journalist, but that doesn’t mean he got into some track and went along. He made his own path and made his own opportunities.

Stig Brodersen  52:00  

Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. As I read all these stories, as you’re saying, they’re all entrepreneurs. I mean, they’re doing something original, something people haven’t done before.

Preston Pysh  52:33  

I really like the point with Anderson Cooper that you’re saying is, so many people get a job. They’re told that they’re a fact checker or they’re told that they’re whatever. Once they’re told that they kind of believe it, maybe they still have aspirations, but the longer that they stay in that role, like if Anderson Cooper stayed in that role as a fact checker for five years, he might still be a fact checker today, but maybe working for a different company, because he had it ingrained and beat into his head that that’s what he is. 

If you stay in that role for too long, you might actually start to believe that you are a fact checker, even though you might not be.  I think it’s really important for people to stand up for what you think you are. 

Just because other people are telling you that you are a fact checker, you need to go out there and create your own destiny. Push back and be mindful of the fact that the longer you stay in that role, and what people are saying that you are, the more likely it is that you might become that.

Gillian Zoe Segal  53:35  

Yeah, and you need to just decide on your own what it is that you want, and just go for it and make your own opportunities.

Preston Pysh  53:42  

That’s right. All right, Stig. Give her the final question that we give every one of our guests.

Stig Brodersen  53:48  

One of the questions that we always like to ask the people that have an interview is what book they like the most. Aside from your own of course, do you have any other books that have drastically shaped your life? If so, what are they and how have they impacted you?

Gillian Zoe Segal  54:06  

Well, one book that I find myself thinking about a lot and I read it years ago, it was called “The Glass Castle.” It’s a great read. It’s by a woman named Jeannette Walls and she grew up in such an impoverished and dysfunctional family. She found success. It’s a memoir, but it’s so inspirational. It makes me feel like the best parent.

Preston Pysh  54:58  

I know that I’m probably going to embarrass you when I do this, but this book was truly inspirational. Each one of these enormously successful people aren’t talking about all the things that they necessarily did right to get to where they’re at. They talked about their struggles and their hardships. They are so human. I think that’s a tribute to your writing. Everyone came across as so human in your book and you can really empathize with them, even though they’re billionaires.

These people are just like me. I can achieve at this level, if I stay persistent. If I create my own business, and if I push back against what other people are telling me that I might be or not be. For our audience, this is a book that I am heavily promoting, and I’m doing that for a reason is because after you read this, you’re going to be just so much more enlightened as to what it is that you’ve got to do in your life, in order to take it to the next level.

Gillian, great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for being with us. 

Outro  1:00:38  

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