[00:03:05] The Duke of Dirt: My dad is a football coach, and with that means you move very often. The first question when I go to new school and people ask me, Oh, how many times have you moved?

[00:03:15] The Duke of Dirt: And I say, oh, seven, eight times. They say, oh, are you in the military or is your family in the military? No, you gotta guess again, athletics, football coach might seem glamorous from the outside looking in. And not to say it’s not, there are a lot of benefits from it, but it is a, it’s a tough life. You, it’s a very public profession.

[00:03:35] The Duke of Dirt: People sit on their couches on the weekends and analyze. Your dad, how he does his job and they have very strong opinions. And as a kid, when I used to come to school on Monday and maybe the team didn’t do so great, oh, I’d hear about that. Your dad stinks. He should be fired. You need to leave. You’re the reason the team stinks.

[00:03:59] The Duke of Dirt: Stuff that kids say that makes no sense. But growing up or in this was a really good learning lesson, how to kind of take negative feedback. Take it and just say, okay, that’s that. We’re done with that. And I think also growing up, being able to walk into a room filled with people I didn’t know.

[00:04:19] The Duke of Dirt: And that’s a very uncomfortable position to be in. And when you do it, Over and over again, you become more comfortable with it. And as a young professional it’s quite advantageous to be able to feel comfortable to walk into a room knowing nobody and strike, strike up a conversation and be able to relate to most people.

[00:04:41] The Duke of Dirt: I mean, I lived in a lot of different states in different cultures and people are different and just understand that early as a young kid, how to relate to people. It’s, I think it’s been helpful. 

[00:04:54] Patrick Donley: Were there any particular coaches or players that had made an impact on you? 

[00:04:59] The Duke of Dirt: Yes, certainly the first person that whenever we moved as a family, it was obviously due to my dad’s job and I am my dad’s biggest fan and I’m an advocate for his career.

[00:05:10] The Duke of Dirt: And thankfully and really not so thankfully, because my dad is I think, a tremendous football coach and there was a reason we were going to better place and better place, but. We went to the University of Alabama and I was kind of at an age where I was really observing the football team, what was going on and how the operation was run, and why this football team was so much better than every other one that my dad had coached on.

[00:05:38] The Duke of Dirt: And Nick Saban has a system and people sometimes, how could he do this? How could he be so good? Well, it’s because he started his career as an assistant coach. And he was extremely observant of every little thing that led to the success of those teams that he was on. He took all of those tidbits and added them to what he would then produce as his own system.

[00:06:04] The Duke of Dirt: And it’s dynamic. Now, don’t get me wrong, I mean, football or sports are changing. They change every year, and obviously, he changes it, but there is a rhyme and a reason to every practice, every meet every day, and. Me seeing how this happened taught me that at the beginning of my career, my real estate career, I need to be highly observant and understand what makes specific operators succeed and what makes other operators not succeed.

[00:06:36] The Duke of Dirt: And I want to avoid the ladder and take as much of the former as I can, and that’s what I’ve done early on in my career. So that’s something I’ve learned from Nick Sabins, you better have a system. In anything you go into, you are setting yourself up for issues. And then somebody else that I was also able to have a front row seat now they ran a program is Chip Kelly, and more so on the human performance side.

[00:07:04] The Duke of Dirt: He is a leading figure in sports, how people treat their bodies and how they get the most out of them. And. This was also, I was kind of, I just got into college and my priorities were not in human performance. They were with college things, parties, other stuff. Well, I quickly understood the importance of sleep, hydration, and nutrition, and how that can impact somebody’s performance.

[00:07:33] The Duke of Dirt: And I’ve taken that into my life. I’m always very cognizant of how much water am I drinking, how much sleep am I getting, and what am I putting into my body? And. And being so aware of this, it’s, if I don’t do the right thing, I can just look back at my day and say, oh, that just, there’s the reason I didn’t do so good today.

[00:07:53] Patrick Donley: I’m not familiar with Chip Kelly. Tell me more about him. 

[00:07:57] The Duke of Dirt: He kind of, people probably started to know about him at the University of Oregon. He ran a fast paced, cutting edge offense and was very successful at Oregon, a program that has capital resources with Nike and Phil Knight. But had not traditionally been a national championship contender and Chip Kelly kind of came in there and made them a perennial contender, and then he kind of parlayed his career into the NFL.

[00:08:24] The Duke of Dirt: He hit two stops in the NFL and now he’s at UCLA. 

[00:08:27] Patrick Donley: Okay. But he’s really into human performance and how to maximize. 

[00:08:30] The Duke of Dirt: Oh, yes. Okay. Yes, he, when he came into the NFL, He brought all of this stuff and this was brand new and whenever, when any, when something, this is something I also learned from just this scenario is this was the first time this type of program had been brought into the NFL.

[00:08:46] The Duke of Dirt: This was brand new and with leagues and systems and organizations that are used to a one way of doing things, when you bring in a new thing, it’s often not well received and it wasn’t totally well received. Looking back now, the whole league’s doing the same stuff he was doing 10 years ago and very well received.

[00:09:08] The Duke of Dirt: So it’s interesting how that happens. 

[00:09:11] Patrick Donley: I’m going to have to check him out. I’m getting into all of this more. I’m, I’ve been listening to a lot of podcasts with Dr. Andrew Huberman is his name, and Dr. Peter Attia. I don’t know if you’re familiar with those guys, but they’ve they’ve both been on Tim Ferris and just really great podcasts about health and human performance and longevity.

[00:09:28] Patrick Donley: Just fascinating stuff. I’m going to have to do a deep dive into Chip Kelly though and find out more about him. 

[00:09:34] The Duke of Dirt: I mean, I don’t know how much you’ll find directly from him, but he had these people that you just mentioned, these type of people were surrounding him 10, 15 years ago. And you probably don’t know about them now, but this was the sort of person that was involved with the program.

[00:09:47] The Duke of Dirt: We had 

[00:09:47] Patrick Donley: talked earlier, we’ve got a mutual friend that kind of is an assistant for Nick Saban at Alabama. Are you familiar with Ryan Holiday? I am. Yes. Yes. Did Nick Saban bring Ryan Holiday in for some 

[00:10:00] The Duke of Dirt: coaching? I believe he does. I can’t say that I’ve ever been in the room when he’s spoke, but yes, I, he does.

[00:10:09] Patrick Donley: Ryan holiday’s got a great book called The Obstacle is The Way, and it just seems like in totally in line with Nick Saban’s philosophy of practice and constant never-ending improvement. And it’s just really good stuff and. Really cool that you got to hang around those guys. I mean, it’s both the players and the coaches.

[00:10:25] Patrick Donley: Just kind of having that influence and that discipline I guess, has had to have had some carryover for your own, both academically and then later in your career. It’s had to have some carryover in effect. 

[00:10:37] The Duke of Dirt: I hope so. I mean, when you’re surrounded by highly, I don’t know if successful is the right word, but high performers, people who are at the absolute peak of their profession.

[00:10:49] The Duke of Dirt: There are qualities that these people exhibit that it’s the rule, like you are what you surround the top five people. This is the same type of situation, so hopefully that happens with me.

[00:11:01] Patrick Donley: I wanted to jump into a little bit about your journey before real estate. Talk to us a little bit about what you were doing.

[00:11:07] Patrick Donley: Your early career is interesting to me, and I kind of want to hear some stories about what you first did right out of college. 

[00:11:13] The Duke of Dirt: I was an undergrad. And if I just backtrack to my junior year. And where’d you go to college? I went to Alabama. Okay. And so I, I’m in business school, I’m getting a marketing degree, and usually you’re supposed to spend your junior year doing an internship with a business that you then parlay into a job.

[00:11:34] The Duke of Dirt: Well, I didn’t do that. I studied abroad in Spain and had the best summer of my entire life. I absolutely loved it. I made memories that will stay with me for my whole entire life. And I came back and I’m going to school and I’m a little bit stubborn, and I told myself, I am not going to sit at a fixed desk under fluorescent lights with no windows at a desk.

[00:12:02] The Duke of Dirt: It’s just not for me. I’m not doing it. And everybody’s asking, all right, well that’s fine, but you have to do something. And I kind of took inventory of where my life was, what’s going on, and I said, I want to go back to Spain and I want to become more fluent in Spanish. And I just want to experience that because I’m never going to have the opportunity to do this again.

[00:12:20] The Duke of Dirt: And so I got a job teaching English in Spain and it was 20, 30 hours of my week. The rest was up to me to do whatever I wanted. And I spent a lot of that time thinking about where I wanted my career to go because. It may sound that I didn’t care about work. I’m a very ambitious person, but I also feel like I’m aware of kind of the bigger picture.

[00:12:44] The Duke of Dirt: And I took the opportunity to go to Spain. Look, I spent the whole year, like seriously considering all the options that I have, and I missed the little part here. So I graduated senior year and I went back home. And that summer while I was waiting to go to Spain, I did an internship with a real estate development company.

[00:13:05] The Duke of Dirt: Very startup, very entrepreneurial and I really liked it, but it didn’t bite me then it didn’t say, this is it. So I went to Spain, what kinda projects were they doing? And I was there mixed use, multi-family over ground floor retail in urban core transit-oriented city. And it was cool. It was cool. And I was thrown into the fire.

[00:13:27] The Duke of Dirt: I mean, it’ll I’ll get to this in a second, kind of how that job happened, but. Anyways, I come back from Spain and I determined that I know all these people in the sports industry. I’ve grown up with them. I have a competitive advantage in this industry. It makes sense for me to go into it and I think I like it.

[00:13:46] The Duke of Dirt: So I got a job at a sports agency representing football coaches, which huh, duh. Like that makes sense. I spent, grew up with these people and I came right in and. It was going well. I mean, I did my internship and then I got a real job in Manhattan pretty much in another situation where they said, all right, we do players.

[00:14:08] The Duke of Dirt: You’re going to come in and do coaches 23, 24, and they’re just, all right, you’re taking the reins. And that was really cool, but it was scary and would say a year into that, I said, eh, I don’t know if this is for me. And there was a lot of travel and I started seeing kind of what the industry was like. And the business model.

[00:14:30] Patrick Donley: Was your dad encouraging of that or what were his thoughts on you being a sports agent for coaches? 

[00:14:37] The Duke of Dirt: He lets me do kind of, he’s a tremendous dad. He’s supportive and if I needed help, she’s always there to help and he was supportive of this and it made sense on paper. It makes tremendous sense.

[00:14:51] The Duke of Dirt: But you know, another thing that I kind of started realizing pretty quickly, and this was a young person making decisions. I look back on this now and say, this was probably not the best thought out decision, but whenever I would do business, everybody said, oh, you’re your dad’s son. I was never who I am. I was always my dad’s something.

[00:15:09] The Duke of Dirt: And that irritated me a bit. Looking back, you put your head down and you work hard, you become your own person. 

[00:15:16] Patrick Donley: Yeah. Early on that’s your identity is like, ah, you’re, Son. 

[00:15:20] The Duke of Dirt: Yeah, and that’s fine. I mean, I was proud of it, but I didn’t want that to be forever. And it wouldn’t have been. You put your head down and you work hard and you make things happen and that doesn’t happen anymore.

[00:15:30] The Duke of Dirt: You look around the world, there’s, I just, I was young and dumb. It wasn’t even the dumbest thing. It just, that’s what happened. 

[00:15:36] Patrick Donley: So what was your next step after that? Did you go get your MBA? 

[00:15:41] The Duke of Dirt: Yeah, I’ll talk about this later on, but you know, it’s okay. I met another dead end here. I just did Spain. I didn’t know what I was doing.

[00:15:50] The Duke of Dirt: Now I went into this industry and now I’m flaming out, okay, what? What is going on with my life? This is not how I drew this off. And growing up with the people around me, there was a lot of, well, you should go to law school. You should do your MBA business school. This is what you do. This is the way, this is how you succeed.

[00:16:09] The Duke of Dirt: You just go get more education. And I bit the cheese. I said, okay, I’m going to do it. So you take the game, I got my score. I got into the school I wanted to get into, and there I went. Did that specialize in real estate and finance. And while I was there circling back, I started working for the real estate developer that I had interned with before I left for Spain.

[00:16:37] The Duke of Dirt: And it kind of came full circle. This company was a little more mature. There was a huge hole in the financial analysis of firm, and the guy who ran it said, okay, you need to do it. Like if you want the job, like this is what you can do for us. Fantastic. Going to school and get into like formal education.

[00:16:58] The Duke of Dirt: Now I can put it to work, but what a lot of people think about the NBA is it’s education and then there’s real world. They are two different things. And when I was asked to do the job, this was all new stuff. I was thrown into the deep end again and I was, there was no help. Nobody really knew how to do it.

[00:17:17] The Duke of Dirt: And so there I went searching for knowledge, podcasts, Twitter, anything online that could teach me how to model deals and excel. And it was awesome. I mean, I was again, into another entrepreneurial venture where I’m leading conversations with equity and debt. And three months ago I’m sitting these mem saying, three months ago I didn’t even know what this was, and now I’m here faking it till I make it and telling these people this stuff.

[00:17:43] The Duke of Dirt: And it was tremendous. It was great. But I did that and I 

[00:17:46] Patrick Donley: So say more about that. What exactly were you doing? You were doing Excel modeling on some of these projects and deals at the, 

[00:17:52] The Duke of Dirt: you guys were looking at, I was putting the concept onto paper. And pretty much making a business plan. And a lot of that was in Excel modeling out the cash flows.

[00:18:03] The Duke of Dirt: How is this going to work, what’s the timing, how much is it going to cost? The, how you would model a development. And then taking that information and going out to the capital sources, going out to the city, going out to the necessary third parties and trying to get a project off the ground. 

[00:18:20] Patrick Donley: And this is while you were getting your MBA?

[00:18:23] The Duke of Dirt: Yes. 

[00:18:24] Patrick Donley: Wow. Great experience. 

[00:18:26] The Duke of Dirt: Yeah, tremendous. But if you can read between the lines, it was kind of the wild west. I was just shooting from the hip and I, along with kind of some people who gave me good advice, surrounded me, said, you may benefit from some more institutional experience and from the outside looking in, oh, institutional, that sounds great.

[00:18:49] The Duke of Dirt: Everybody wants to get into that. And now I have this shiny new MBA. I could probably do it. And so I said, all right, this is what I’m going to do. So I went and got a job in in institutional shop doing asset management. That was my entry into kind of institution. And again, great experience learned. I don’t want to say the right way to do things, but the more formal the way people have done them for years, tried and true methods.

[00:19:19] The Duke of Dirt: Now there are different ways. 

[00:19:21] Patrick Donley: I’m sorry, what was your role there? Were you doing asset management for multi-family like apartments and things like that?

[00:19:27] The Duke of Dirt: It was across, so yes, it was an LP, so it was a limited partner in across all, pretty much all asset classes across all geographies. It was just constrained by the deal size, so they were rating checks between two and like 30 million bucks.

[00:19:44] The Duke of Dirt: So it was like sub. I don’t want to say sub-in institutional, but it’s not like mainstream equity checks hundreds of millions of dollars. It was in that sub range. And working with a myriad of different operating partners. And circling back to the first thing I said about learning how to create a system, here I am off for front row seat with 20 or 30 different operators in different asset classes, understanding what makes them successful, why are they better than others and for me, In asset management, I’m aggregating data from all of these operators.

[00:20:18] The Duke of Dirt: I’m putting it on paper, and then I’m reporting back to the company. And it’s very easy to compare all of these operators to each other because mainly doing the same job. And so you start seeing, okay, what these people do is better than how these people do it, or just little things like that. It was a very good experience.

[00:20:38] Patrick Donley: I want to kind of get into that. You talked about like listening to podcasts and books and things like that. As you were getting more into commercial and institutional real estate, talk about some of those whether it’s people, books, podcasts, some of the things that like made the biggest impact on you early on in your career.

[00:20:54] The Duke of Dirt: Twitter was one of the first resources that was eye-opening and a real source of. I felt right and true knowledge. There’s a lot of other sources that are some that are a bit suspect. I’m not going to go into names, but I was a little bit thinking, I don’t know if this is actually how it happens. You get on Twitter and the proof is in the pudding.

[00:21:18] The Duke of Dirt: These people are doing real deals, solid deals, and just reading as much as I possibly could of them. Moses Kagan has a blog, which I devoured. I know he doesn’t like to talk about it too much, but it is top-notch content. It is tremendous. I recommend everybody who’s getting into real estate read it from back to front.

[00:21:39] The Duke of Dirt: It’s great knowledge. And then just general books. I mean, you’ve got the whole group of like these big guy, you’ve got Sam Zell, you’ve got Francis Greenberg, or you’ve got Steve Schwarzman. Guys like that. I mean, that’s just great stuff you can consume. And then podcasts, I mean, there’s a handful. You’ve got this podcast.

[00:21:59] The Duke of Dirt: Great hearing from actual people. Something I used to like to do is I’d find people who I really respected, like Sam Zell, listen to every podcast Sam Zell is on, and you start hearing and general kind of ways of investing. That’s another way. It’s kind of how I did it. 

[00:22:17] Patrick Donley: I wanted to hear your thoughts on, you are a huge fan of Twitter.

[00:22:21] Patrick Donley: You’ve learned so much from Twitter. I think a lot of us in the community have, it’s an incredibly, I don’t know, just giving, how giving people are on there is kind of, has blown my mind in some ways. I haven’t been on it as long as you, but it’s amazing what you can learn on there. Looking back on things.

[00:22:36] Patrick Donley: I wanted to hear how you would view advanced education. Is that something you would do again or advise somebody young to go get an MBA in order to have a career in real estate? Or do you think there’s just so much information out there that you can kind of create your own m MBA in a sense and learn what you need to do or learn what you need to learn outside of a traditional educational model?

[00:22:59] The Duke of Dirt: This is a tough question and I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. There are tremendous benefits of having an MBA. I’m not going to lie, and a lot of it is perception. When people see MBA from school that they know or respect, they just immediately put a label on you that, oh, suddenly this person knows what they’re doing.

[00:23:21] The Duke of Dirt: It’s the same thing with working experience. Well, that doesn’t always mean you are better or more knowledgeable about doing something and. Real work experience trumps everything. And like you said, mixing the real work experience with the content that is widely available across internet is a recipe for success.

[00:23:46] The Duke of Dirt: But you have to put in the work. You can’t just hope for it to fall in your lap. You have to go out and do it. With the MBA, I mean it kind of, you have to put in the work obviously, to get into the school and there’s. You have capital investment? Potentially, but I’ll be honest, it’s been tremendously helpful.

[00:24:04] The Duke of Dirt: And if I were to redo it, I don’t know I’m certainly proud of it and it’s been tremendously helpful. Now look back and say, all right, if I know now everything, and I use those two years that I did demand get real world experience, would I be in the same place? I don’t know. That’s a political question that I’m not sure I can answer.

[00:24:23] The Duke of Dirt: But I think you can succeed in both ways today. That’s my best answer. Both things work. 

[00:24:29] Patrick Donley: Yeah. It’s a tough answer. It’s I interviewed Kevin Clark who got a, he got his MBA in real estate finance at nyu and. And at the end of the interview, I asked him what his best investment had been and without a, hesitation, he said his education, because he was able to, he was in commercial real estate brokerage, he was able to go in, and work with the seller and really look at the, the financials and really understand them and just having that MBA.

[00:24:56] Patrick Donley: Gave him credibility that a guy that didn’t have it, just didn’t have, so, but then there’s the opportunity cost of, what you’re spending on in education. Yeah. I’ve had different answers to this, so it’s just kind of interesting to hear people’s thoughts. 

[00:25:10] The Duke of Dirt: Look, Kevin Clark may have had a different, better experience than I did, but I think I would probably be better off going in and looking at the financials of a piece of an asset in real estate or a company.

[00:25:24] The Duke of Dirt: Doing it, doing the actual work with somebody who is an expert as my mentor, as my boss or something. I think I would be better off doing that than going and doing, sitting in a classroom and learning the learning out of a book. But that’s just me. I learn in a unique way. 

[00:25:40] Patrick Donley: No, that makes sense. I wanted to get into the topic of advice following we, we kind of touched on this a little bit.

[00:25:46] Patrick Donley: I wanted to get your thoughts on just the dangers of following conventional wisdom. I mean, you were in an environment where a lot of people were telling you to. Whatever. Go get your law degree, go get your MBA, go whatever. Get kind of a more conventional path versus what I find a lot of successful real estate investors are contrarians.

[00:26:03] Patrick Donley: They go out and do their own thing. They do not follow conventional wisdom. Talk to us a little bit about that. Going out on your own and doing what you think you should do versus doing what you want to do. That’s a tough path and a tough struggle, I think for a lot of younger people. Talk to us about just how you think you can navigate it.

[00:26:22] Patrick Donley: Any advice you have for navigating that, that journey, I guess you would say. 

[00:26:27] The Duke of Dirt: Yeah. That is an interesting concept with following conventional wisdom and going down the path that people tell you to do versus doing what you truly desire to do. And I want to caveat this by saying I personally am in a situation.

[00:26:44] The Duke of Dirt: That has enabled me to be a little more bold with taking action of going out of my own. And I am grateful for that. And not everybody can do that, but when you look at your life in the bigger picture, at least here’s what I did. I go to work and I say, this person who is a few steps higher up than I am in the hierarchy.

[00:27:08] The Duke of Dirt: Does this job intrigue me? Is this a job I would be happy doing in 10, 15, 20 years and the path to get there? Am I going to be building something on the way that I can look back on and be happy? I spent 20 years doing it and for me the answer was clearly not. I was certain that I did not want to be the people who I was looking up to.

[00:27:34] The Duke of Dirt: And I was starving to go build something for myself. Growing up, I was taking advice primarily from people who have followed the corporate structure. They all tell you, education corporation, just follow the leader. 

[00:27:53] Patrick Donley: And even I would, I just had this thought, even with your dad’s situation, there’s still a hierarchy of working your way up the football coaching hierarchy.

[00:28:01] Patrick Donley: Yep. Like, and that’s a, not that it’s a well-trodden path, but it’s somewhat laid out. 

[00:28:06] The Duke of Dirt: Yeah. You f you work hard and you go up the thing and great. And many people succeed and live great lives and I am happy for them, but I’m not one of those people. And I think there’s a lot of other people that probably align with me.

[00:28:20] The Duke of Dirt: And some days I would wake up and look in the mirror and say, what’s wrong with me? Why can’t I just be like that? Well, I haven’t figured that answer out yet, but I can tell you I’m not going to force myself into being a corporate warrior. It just was never going to work for me. And it was very clear early on that I didn’t want to, I don’t want to say waste, but I didn’t want to live 20, 30 years of my life just to retire and do nothing and look back and say, oh, what did I do?

[00:28:48] The Duke of Dirt: I want to do something that I’m proud of, that I’m passionate about, and that means I needed to go out on my own. Again, a one little caveat, it is extremely important for me that I felt that I had the, I don’t requisite screening and experience to be able to execute on a strategy and succeed. And I’m at the point now where I feel that, but that wasn’t true.

[00:29:14] The Duke of Dirt: And I put my head down for a couple years. Unhappily I, there was always that carrot at the end of the road saying, all right, like, we’re working towards something and then we’re going to go. 

[00:29:25] Patrick Donley: Was that your thought process, rather as you were at this institutional real estate firm, that you were just trying to learn as much as you could kind of build your skillset?

[00:29:34] Patrick Donley: Is that how you thought about it? 

[00:29:37] The Duke of Dirt: Yeah. If I’m being frank, yeah, I mean, it’s not something an employer wants to hear and it’s a little bit shallow, but yeah, I was a paid fill-in for a couple years in my mind. I was there to do my job effectively. I certainly wanted to do my job. Well be thought of highly and do great, but I was certainly there to learn as much as I possibly could make the connections with the necessary people.

[00:30:03] The Duke of Dirt: And build a foundation to jumpstart my real estate investing outfit. 

[00:30:10] Patrick Donley: This is kind of a common theme. I’ve heard with several of the interviews that I’ve done of people that have followed a traditional path. I interviewed a guy, Riley Williams, who got a law degree at Chicago, university of Chicago, got like a top law job right out of college, but he was, absolutely hated it.

[00:30:25] Patrick Donley: Came from a family of lawyers. And that I think can just be, and I had a similar experience in my own life, kind of following traditional advice, and then you hit this point where it’s just like, crap, this is hasn’t worked out for me. I have what I’m supposed to want and I’m still unhappy, or I’m still like, this just isn’t doing it.

[00:30:43] Patrick Donley: I think that can be a hard realization for people, and it’s like, all right, what’s next? Then? Like if this path hasn’t done the trick. How do I segue into doing whatever the next chapter is? And I think that can be a really tricky road to navigate. And you’re kind of in the middle of that right now. Talk to us a little more about that, like how it’s been for you, the transition.

[00:31:03] Patrick Donley: You’ve recently gone out on your own, so can you talk to us just about leaving more of an institutional job and going out, doing your own thing? 

[00:31:12] The Duke of Dirt: Yeah I’m happy to. It’s been that carrot at the end of the road for years, and I can tell you, I was certainly scared to wake up those days and weeks after thinking, oh my gosh, I’ve made a tremendous mistake.

[00:31:26] The Duke of Dirt: I’m very happy to say I wake up every morning jumping out of bed, so happy and invigorated and passionate about what I can do today to move the ball forward just a little bit. I’m as excited and really invigorated as I’ve been in my professional career ever right now. If I were to look back and if I were to do something different or I don’t think I would, I just advice I would give to people trying to do the same thing is you’ve gotta work really hard side of your job to set the framework so that when you do make the move, hey, you’re not just, okay, what do I do now?

[00:32:06] The Duke of Dirt: Have things set up. Make those relationships, communicate to people in the realm of the industry you’re going into about what you’re going to do. For me, that was brokers, lawyers, accountants, people like that. I mean, I’ve been working on this for a couple years now, and now it’s like, okay, call each one of these people.

[00:32:26] The Duke of Dirt: Here’s exactly what I’m doing. Here’s the criteria I’m looking for. And do you know anybody that is doing anything in the realm of that? I’d love to meet. 

[00:32:37] Patrick Donley: Cool. So tell us what you’ve been up to, like since you’ve left your company what are you been focusing on? Talk to us about the niche and real estate that you’ve focused on.

[00:32:45] The Duke of Dirt: I’m looking to acquire multi-family Class B in particular. I mean, I’m not, I’d look at some class C plus, let’s call it Class B, anywhere between five to a hundred units on the main line. Let’s call it a tier one city. And the thesis is you can take a lot of these assets, which are owned by, a large portion of them are owned by the baby boomer cohort and they are sub-in institutional nature.

[00:33:14] The Duke of Dirt: They’re often self-managed or managed for occupancy’s sake. They’re interiors are not renovated or they’re outdated, I should say. And oftentimes the rents are under market now, this is the perfect store. You don’t find these assets, so, and they don’t trade hands often, but. This cohort of people is growing older and when people grow older, oftentimes assets trade hands.

[00:33:39] The Duke of Dirt: So I am looking to acquire those assets and how I’m actually doing that is trying to establish relationships with as many people as I can. Oftentimes those owners, and I’m playing a long game here, I fully expect to sit back and, maybe I won’t acquire something for a year. But over time, over the next 10 years, these properties will trade hands and I hope to be the one to acquire.

[00:34:02] Patrick Donley: Can you talk to us? I’ve got several questions here. Are you bringing in outside partners for capital? Are you bringing in any kind of partners, like with a different skill set? Talk to us about that. 

[00:34:13] The Duke of Dirt: On the capital front, I am raising capital from a couple sources. I mean, there’s going to be a large family and friends portion of it.

[00:34:21] The Duke of Dirt: And then from an institutional LP side, I mean, that’s still in the works. I don’t know on that front where that’s going to be in terms of operational partners. No, not yet. I’m open to it. But you’re looking at it. I’m the show. 

[00:34:35] Patrick Donley: So have you made your first investment then? Have you not 

[00:34:38] The Duke of Dirt: yet purchased anything yet?

[00:34:40] The Duke of Dirt: I’ve got some promising, I don’t have anything tied up yet, but I hope to report back soon that I do. 

[00:34:47] Patrick Donley: Okay, great. We’ll have you back on the show and kind of get an update, but how are you looking for deals? Is it primarily through brokers that you are reaching out to, or what’s the best way you’re finding to, to find these deals that are baby boomers that are tired of managing their properties?

[00:35:02] The Duke of Dirt: Yes, there’s the brokerage, which the brokerage community provides tremendous value. In my particular instance, what I found with broker deals, Is the asking price is wildly off from the price that I’m willing to pay, and I am going to stick by the fundamentals that I’ve set out and I’m looking for specific metrics, and if they don’t hit, I’m not going to throw in rent growth that I hope to happen.

[00:35:32] The Duke of Dirt: I’m just not going to do it. That’s what I’ve seen with broker deals. I’ve had more success with talking to people and getting warm introductions to owners. That’s where I’ve had the most success and having conversations with these people who are, oftentimes, I wouldn’t say it’s, there’s no fire sales going on that I’m dealing with, but there’s reasons these people are selling, whether it’s repositioning capital or they have a bigger deal and like this deal, it’s just too small.

[00:36:00] The Duke of Dirt: It’s not worth their time, and they need to get it off their hands and put the money back into this bigger deal. That’s where I’ve had more success. So yeah, direct to seller, and I’m not oftentimes. Cold calling. I know everybody loves the cold call. I’m not hating on the cold call, but a warm introduction.

[00:36:18] The Duke of Dirt: Now that now you’re playing with fire. Right, right. It’s really good. 

[00:36:22] Patrick Donley: Yeah, I am glad you mentioned that. I did an interview with AJ Osborne who does self storages, and he did, he had an interesting strategy where he would just ask, let’s say a, in his case it was self, a self-storage mom and pop owner out for a coffee or just take them to lunch.

[00:36:38] Patrick Donley: Just saying like, he’d like to just learn a little bit about the business. He would never say he wanted to buy their property, but what he would say is like, do you have, do like, Develop a relationship with them, develop rapport, some trust that’s involved. And then just ask if he knows of anybody that is interested in selling.

[00:36:53] Patrick Donley: And a lot of times, like maybe they wouldn’t be at that point, but they’d still keep him in mind. And he was able to generate a lot of deals that closed because, using that method, which I thought was. And I like your idea too, just the warm what did you call it? The warm intro. Warm intro.

[00:37:07] The Duke of Dirt: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you’re not coming out of left field and saying, right. Hi, I’m calling about one main street. I’d like, are you going to sell? I going to sell for 10 million. Okay, well, it’s worth 1 million. No deal. No. A warm intro. Hey, I have a friend that’s looking to buy X in this area. I think your property fits.

[00:37:25] The Duke of Dirt: Would you like to meet him? And I’m not the y I’m ha usually a friend’s making the intro, and then I’ll take it from there. I found success. I mean, you obviously have to be connected or have a, I have a solid network, which is something I’m always working on and I’m not coming in hot. Hey, let’s make a transaction.

[00:37:42] The Duke of Dirt: You’re making friends here. This is all, we’re playing a really long game. I’m not looking for a quick buck. I’m not looking to screw people over. I’m to make connections and make deals sometime down the road. 

[00:37:52] Patrick Donley: Yeah, your reputation doesn’t go away. Right. So it’s something you want to maintain and develop.

[00:37:58] Patrick Donley: We mentioned, I mentioned early on, like you and I became friends through real estate Twitter. I just wanted to hear how you just first got involved in the community, why you chose to remain anonymous, kind of the pros and cons of that, and then just the benefits that it’s provided you so far, just being involved in real estate Twitter.

[00:38:14] The Duke of Dirt: I am an advocate of real estate Twitter, as you probably can understand.

[00:38:20] The Duke of Dirt: I was one weekend trying to learn as much as I possibly could on. 

[00:38:25] Patrick Donley: How long ago was that? Just how, like a couple years ago or?

[00:38:30] The Duke of Dirt: 2018 or 2019. But I didn’t start with my actual, The Duke of Dirt account until the summer of 2021. And this is when I kept telling people there’s real value here.

[00:38:41] The Duke of Dirt: There’s a lot of smart people that are sharing tremendous information and I want to be involved. But for me, issue was always my job. You work in an antiquated, let’s call it what it is. Real estate is mostly an antiquated industry with a lot of rigid rules, and most of the times when you work at places that are a little more institutional, that have reporting standards and stuff, social media, oh, you can have social media, but once you start talking about real estate and opinions and stuff like that, it gets dicey for me being a young person.

[00:39:17] The Duke of Dirt: It was a complete no. Couldn’t do it. And my, I kept telling myself, you’re making excuses. You’re just not getting involved. You’re making excuses. Well, I said, we’re not making any more excuses. We’re going to make an account and anonymous and I’m not going to tweet anything that, I wouldn’t say myself with my name, but there’s that layer of, I don’t want to call it safety, but there’s just like a layer where if you search my real name on Google, it’s not going to come up.

[00:39:45] The Duke of Dirt: Which was my solution. And it’s been, I mean, the connections I’ve made on real estate Twitter, people that I have somewhat quick access to is remarkable. Really? I mean, I’ve had conversations with people that. If I would’ve sent them a message on LinkedIn with my real profile, no thought, no way, I would’ve gotten conversation.

[00:40:06] The Duke of Dirt: Well, I sent it from Twitter. Oh sure. Yeah. When do you want to meet? I mean, not always, but I’ve gotten response where it’s sure whenever, what’s good. And that’s powerful. That’s really powerful. 

[00:40:18] Patrick Donley: Yeah. I’ve experienced the same thing with Twitter. Just I’ll invite different people that I follow. To be on the podcast and everybody, like, I don’t think I’ve had anyone say no, so it’s just like that power of the relationships that you can build has just kind of blown my mind and it’s just been so, I, it’s just been wonderful.

[00:40:34] Patrick Donley: I, I’ve really loved it. I wanted to talk a little bit more about the Twitter threads. Like that’s kinda what you’re known for, is the threads that you do. And we talked a little bit before the podcast started about just what goes into them. So I wanted to talk to you just about the amount of work that goes into it, how do you go about doing it, the research that’s involved.

[00:40:53] Patrick Donley: Go into a little bit about your process for writing the threads that you do. 

[00:40:57] The Duke of Dirt: Okay. You ready? 

[00:40:59] Patrick Donley: I’m ready.

[00:40:59] The Duke of Dirt: Get your notepad ready. I got it right here. I sit down and I figure out somebody who I would like to learn more about and when it started they, they were the obvious big names, Sam Zell, Steve Schwarzman, guys like this.

[00:41:14] The Duke of Dirt: And I go on to Spotify or wherever and I type their name and I queue up as many podcasts as they have done okay for my week. This is when I used to commute a lot and I’m listening on 1 75 times speed. And whenever a little tidbit of information where I think is valuable comes up, I’ll look at the timestamp and I’ll write it down on a notepad or in my notes.

[00:41:41] The Duke of Dirt: If I’m driving, I’ll try to scribble it and at the end of the week I’ll sit down with my timestamps and I’ll put it on paper. And that’s really it. I mean that doing that takes a lot of time and it’s not always podcasts. Sometimes I’m going on YouTube and I’m queuing up a list there. Sometimes it’s a book.

[00:42:00] The Duke of Dirt: Sometimes there are news articles, but the point is I’m really trying to understand these people and then taking stuff they’ve said and using the same first tweet. That’s the most important part. because if you don’t have the first tweet that is really says, whoa, I want to read that. If it’s not, you’re just, you could have, you could say, I’m giving away 10 bars of gold in the fourth tweet.

[00:42:26] The Duke of Dirt: And nobody’s going to say, oh I’d like that. No, you’re just won’t get it. Pretty much with I’ve found something that works. And if you look at my tweets, it’s mainly the same thing. You say the person’s name, you say they’re worth an ungodly amount of money, and you tell the audience that they have so much experience, and then you tell them, well, they have all this money, they have all this experience, they must know something.

[00:42:49] The Duke of Dirt: Well, I’ve gone out and I’ve curated. Tent golden lessons from them and here they are. And usually they’re pretty darn good, I think. I mean, I like to say something. They are, they’re very good. 

[00:43:00] Patrick Donley: So anybody that doesn’t follow you follow The Duke of Dirt for sure. I think the one that caught my attention was the one on Sam ZelI and I love am I being too subtle?

[00:43:08] Patrick Donley: The book was, I just think he’s a character and enjoyed reading that. But do you have any favorites that you’ve done of the threads that you’ve done? What are some of your favorites and some of the lessons that kind of stand out? 

[00:43:19] The Duke of Dirt: Yes. I would say the first one that I ever did and how this all started was kinda have a rule for myself.

[00:43:26] The Duke of Dirt: Now that I am producing content on Twitter, it’s hard. It’s not easy, right? I’ve come up with ideas. Whenever I consume content, I have to produce at least one piece of content. And so I’m on, it’s the weekend and I’m just on YouTube listening to John Gray of Blackstone. Who headed their real estate and now he’s the president, the whole thing, and he’s dropping.

[00:43:47] The Duke of Dirt: I like to say bars of gold. They’re just tremendous pieces of knowledge, and I’m writing all these notes and I finished listening to two or three YouTube videos and I said, what? This is like 15 tweets. I might as well put this into a thread and then cherry pick parts of the thread for the rest of the month, and that’s what I’m going to do.

[00:44:05] The Duke of Dirt: I said, oh my gosh, I have so much content now. This is amazing. Well, I did that for the first time. And obviously, it went great. So I said, okay, I’m onto something. But he, to answer your question, he is one, he’s very wealthy, but he’s relatable and he doesn’t speak in, I may have said some big words today to make me sound smart.

[00:44:25] The Duke of Dirt: He doesn’t do that. He’s obviously very intelligent person, but he is so eloquent with how he presents an idea and explains it and talks through an investment thesis. I think that’s, for me, that’s a sign of just, I like that. 

[00:44:39] Patrick Donley: In very simple terms. Like just the way he 

[00:44:41] The Duke of Dirt: explains things and, yeah. 

[00:44:43] The Duke of Dirt: Yeah. I mean, if you look at some of his lessons they’re gold.

[00:44:46] The Duke of Dirt: One of my favorites that I’ve taken or that I tell people, he tells people when they take their first job. Two things. You want to look for a culture of meritocracy. Somewhere you can go work hard, be great, and be rewarded for it. And a culture of teaching somewhere where people are happy. And enjoy teaching younger people because this is how you’re going to grow and become successful.

[00:45:14] The Duke of Dirt: He always tells people that. So I’ve always taken that one. I mean a few other lesson. There’s a lot. Yeah, there’s a ton of them definitely. Right. Like you said, read some of these they’re really great. Sternick Barry Stern Lick, who is not opposed to an interview. He really likes it. And I think that’s one of my veterans threads just because he’s spoken so much.

[00:45:32] Patrick Donley: He’s CEO of Starwood, is that right? 

[00:45:34] The Duke of Dirt: Yes. Yeah. He’s on Squaw box a lot, correct? Yeah, you’ve got it. Yeah. He says, find the freight trains in your life and get on them, not in front of them. That’s not actually his direct quote. I remember he said that he was told that by a professor in college, I believe, but I think that’s pretty basic, but it’s very true.

[00:45:54] The Duke of Dirt: Look in the world today, and I’m sure you could see a handful of things that. Maybe wouldn’t be something you want to get into. I could think in real estate, I mean I’m going to listen to this in 10 years and say, oh, what an idiot. But you look at office sector, you say, that’s an interesting sector. I don’t know what’s going going to happen there.

[00:46:12] The Duke of Dirt: And I could be totally wrong and it could boom, but that’s one where I don’t know, I would get in front of the train. Now I could be totally wrong. And that’s just an example there. Another barrier, stern licked is hope is not a business strategy. And I like to think that, you see people acquiring assets in today, and I do the numbers.

[00:46:36] The Duke of Dirt: I really look at the rents and I see how in the hell are these people getting to that number? And the only thing that I can come up with is their assumptions are entirely based on hope, and that is not something I am interested in investing on. That’s kind of one I fall back on. And then just two quick ones.

[00:46:56] The Duke of Dirt: Steve Schwarzman founded, created Blackstone. He likes to tell people, write or call the people you admire. You never know what can happen. And Steve Schwartzman’s famous for writing presidents or big time people, and this is before he was who he is. And he said often he would get invites to go to houses and interesting things happen.

[00:47:16] The Duke of Dirt: And I think that’s kind of relatable to Twitter a little bit where you don’t know what’s going to happen and somehow you can get a thread and. All of a sudden you have Sam Zell in your DMs. That’s not what’s going to happen here, but it’s just cool. Yeah, that one. And then Sam Zell just says, when people show you who they are, believe them.

[00:47:33] The Duke of Dirt: I think that’s my favorite. 

[00:47:34] Patrick Donley: His main takeaway that I took from his book was like, always buy below replacement cost. 

[00:47:39] The Duke of Dirt: Yep. And don’t buy with negative leverage. Correct. Right. 

[00:47:42] Patrick Donley: Any other qualities that kind of stick out for you? Of all of these investors that you’ve focused on for your threads that have made them successful, what are some of the commonalities that you’ve seen?

[00:47:53] The Duke of Dirt: There’s one that every single one of these people has. It is they have a tremendous belief in themselves to accomplish what many thought they could not accomplish. It starts with you and if you don’t believe. Truly about what you can do. I mean, I’m not going to say it’s not going to happen, but these people don’t exit at that quali.

[00:48:16] The Duke of Dirt: When you look at Steven Ross, who he was working for a company, he was fired from his job because he went out with his boss one night and I don’t know, punched him. That’s the story. And he went out the next day and said, I can do this better than you. And guess what he did? So he obviously, he had some help.

[00:48:34] The Duke of Dirt: He had his uncle. But these people really, truly believe in themselves. 

[00:48:39] Patrick Donley: Yeah, they’re also independent thinkers. Contrarians, it seems like to some degree. Anything else that comes to mind of some of these guys? 

[00:48:46] The Duke of Dirt: I would say yes, they contrarian thinkers, they, IRA Lubert think says that often. He’s another thread that I’ve really enjoyed listening or writing about.

[00:48:55] The Duke of Dirt: He doesn’t talk publicly very often, but I wish he would. He has tremendous mind. 

[00:49:01] Patrick Donley: Okay. I wanted to kind of segue into your newsletter. I think you may have mentioned that a little bit. Talk to us about that, what the content is you’re producing. Is it the kind of the threads that you’re, that the newsletter is, or is it totally unrelated?

[00:49:15] The Duke of Dirt: No it is. I read a newsletter that I’ve, selfishly I like to tell people when you write, when you put things on paper, you really grasp them that much better, and. For me, it’s been that I try to take the reader from zero to one, and it doesn’t have to be this broad, crazy topic. It’s how do you do something better in your real estate operation or if you’re part of the real estate community.

[00:49:42] The Duke of Dirt: And so that’s kind of the general thing. And does that involve doing lessons from famous investors? Yes. Does it include how to make sure that you’re charging or you’re going out to market with the right rent on your apartment unit? Yep. Does it include like my tech stack, every part of my real estate operation that I’m using?

[00:50:03] The Duke of Dirt: Yes. All things that I pretty much try to look back at myself four or five years ago and say, would this have been valuable? I look at my Google search history, if I can go back, I don’t think I’d go back then, but there’s just any of these types of things. That’s what I try to provide. Yeah. And how often does it come out?

[00:50:20] The Duke of Dirt: Try to do weekly, but it just hasn’t always been that, that way. Yeah. 

[00:50:25] Patrick Donley: I shared with you earlier that we do a daily newsletter called We Study Markets and it’s hard to come up with and produce a bunch of content on a weekly or daily basis. 

[00:50:34] The Duke of Dirt: It’s, yeah. And you want it to be good. Definitely. And you definitely really provide tremendous value.

[00:50:38] The Duke of Dirt: And some days I don’t read it and think that’s tremendously valuable. Yeah. And maybe I should just take my own lesson, just hit send. And somebody probably could take value from it. 

[00:50:50] Patrick Donley: I listened to an interesting podcast yesterday with a guy named Kevin Kelly, who was the founder of Wired Magazine and fascinating guy, kind of a futurist technology kind of guy, but he was talking about just how everybody should write and for himself, like he doesn’t really know what he thinks until he starts writing.

[00:51:05] Patrick Donley: And I think the practice of writing is something that anyone at whatever level could get benefit from for sure. 

[00:51:13] The Duke of Dirt: I wholeheartedly agree. I think writing is a tremendous resource to anybody to conceptualize your thoughts and better understand a concept. 

[00:51:24] Patrick Donley: Let’s jump into a fire round here real quick.

[00:51:26] Patrick Donley: We’re kinda at the hour mark, and I wanted to, I know that you’re a big reader, researcher, that kind of thing. So what have you read recently that you think I should read? 

[00:51:36] The Duke of Dirt: Endurance Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage. This is a book about. A group of, I believe, English explorers that went to the Arctic and experienced, let’s call it a tough voyage.

[00:51:51] The Duke of Dirt: And if you’re looking for perspective, if you want to feel a little more resilient in your life, this is the book for you. I’ll check it out. 

[00:52:00] Patrick Donley: This is totally unrelated, and this mic had edited out, but I met a guy in Asheville, North Carolina who did, there’s, you’ve heard of the Iditarod, right? The Yes Dog sled race, which is a thousand mile race.

[00:52:10] Patrick Donley: Well, a week before the Iditarod, there’s a. Week before, a week after, there’s a human powered Iditarod race, so it’s a thousand miles by yourself. And I met this guy in Nashville. He was working at a running store, and his boss came up. He’s like, has this guy told you who he is? I’m like, Nope. Now we’re just kind of talking and.

[00:52:30] Patrick Donley: He ended up winning this race, like he won the Iditarod foot race and he wrote a book about it. He’s like a motivational speaker now, and went through a bunch of personal hardships in his own life and got into running and just a really interesting story. And I love those. I’ll definitely check out endurance and give it a good read.

[00:52:48] Patrick Donley: I’ve heard it mentioned a couple times, so, it’s time to probably read it. 

[00:52:52] The Duke of Dirt: It is the best book to gain a little bit of perspective and be just a more resilient person because you read what these people went through and you say, holy smokes, I might not have that bad. 

[00:53:04] Patrick Donley: Good perspective. Next one.

[00:53:06] Patrick Donley: Where have you traveled to? You’ve done a bunch of traveling. I know that. Where have you traveled to that? I should travel to? 

[00:53:13] The Duke of Dirt: San Sebastian in Spain. It’s where I studied abroad that junior year. It is if you enjoy great food, If you enjoy water sports, maybe surfing, and you like good wine, this is the best place in the world is not biased.

[00:53:27] Patrick Donley: But is it in the Rioja region of Spain?

[00:53:30] The Duke of Dirt: It’s in the Pist. Staco. Which is Rioja, yes. 

[00:53:33] Patrick Donley: Okay. I will check that out. I’ve been to Spain, like Madrid and the airport, but that’s about it. I’ve not kind of gone out and ventured around. 

[00:53:39] The Duke of Dirt: You gotta, yeah, you gotta go off. And then my special edition here, Rio de Janeiro.

[00:53:45] The Duke of Dirt: Great city. Yeah. Be beautiful city. 

[00:53:48] Patrick Donley: Definitely on my list. Best purchase under $250. I think this was one of your questions. 

[00:53:53] The Duke of Dirt: It was, and I’ll do you one better. How about under $100? Okay. It is a Josephine number two universal wine glass. I really enjoy wine and drinking out of this wine glass. Know, it’s going to sound odd to many people who just drink to drink, but it is really an experience.

[00:54:10] The Duke of Dirt: Every time I have a glass of wine and it is delicate, it’s fragile, but it is. It is an experience. 

[00:54:16] Patrick Donley: So Josephine number two, wine glass? 

[00:54:19] The Duke of Dirt: Yes, I heard that right? Okay. Yep. You’ll I’ll it out. I’ll check it out. 

[00:54:22] Patrick Donley: My parents are both big wine drinkers. I’ll have to get a 

[00:54:24] The Duke of Dirt: couple. It’s a great gift. Yeah. If you’re looking for a gift for somebody that likes wine or something.

[00:54:29] The Duke of Dirt: Two of these. Aw Premo. Cool. 

[00:54:32] Patrick Donley: Last one here. What’s your best real estate book that you would recommend? 

[00:54:39] The Duke of Dirt: I would say Steve Schwarzman, what it Takes. I really found tremendous inspiration from reading how he started Blackstone and he was in an enviable position at his firm. He had the world. He could have sat back and extremely success.

[00:54:54] The Duke of Dirt: He said, I want more. And he did, and he built something more. Very cool. 

[00:54:58] Patrick Donley: I, that’s one I haven’t read either, but I’ve read your thread on it, which was great. Off the, I got a lot of reading to do, endurance, and then what it takes. So, duke, thanks a lot. This has been a lot of fun. I’ve enjoyed talking with you, getting to know you a little bit better.

[00:55:12] Patrick Donley: Do you have any kind of words of wisdom or like a takeaway, one big takeaway you’d want for our listeners who’ve been listening today? 

[00:55:18] The Duke of Dirt: Yeah, I think two things and Patrick, this was quite enjoyable. I’m, yeah, a lot of appreciative of the invite and I hope I’ve provided a little bit of value. Two things here in life.

[00:55:29] The Duke of Dirt: Effort requires no talent. You don’t need to be smart to show up every day and make something. In fact in real estate, the hungriest people often outperform the sharpest. So that’s one. And then two on that is hungry dogs run faster. Meaning if you truly want it, go make it happen. No excuses, just do it.

[00:55:51] Patrick Donley: Love it. So Duke, a lot of fun here. Definitely have enjoyed it. Definitely. You’ve provided some value. I encourage our listeners to check out your threads. There’s a ton of knowledge there to pick up. What’s the best way? Aside from Twitter or on Twitter, how, what’s your handle on Twitter and what’s a good way for maybe another way for people to reach out to you?

[00:56:10] The Duke of Dirt: Yeah. @thedukeofdirt on Twitter, that’s really the best place I direct. Messages are open. I enjoy hearing from people. I love going back and forth. And then there’s the newsletter on the profile of Twitter. That’s probably the easiest way to get to it. 

[00:56:24] Patrick Donley: Thank you so much for your time. This has been a lot of fun.

[00:56:27] The Duke of Dirt: Thanks, Patrick. 

[00:56:28] Patrick Donley: Okay folks, that’s all I had for today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed the show, and I’ll see you back here real soon. 

[00:56:35] Outro: Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to subscribe to We Study Billionaires by The Investor’s Podcast Network. Every Wednesday we teach you about Bitcoin, and every Saturday we study billionaires and the financial markets.

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