Jason Saltzman (02:13):

So as you can imagine, the resources were a lot different. And fast forward today, and I’m building my 20 something company. Most of them have failed. I have a lot of stories out of that. And now I am older, wiser, more well-equipped, but still learning. And I just want to be great.

Clay Finck (02:31):

I love it. 20 something companies. That’s pretty impressive.

Jason Saltzman (02:34):

Well, not winners by the way. From all statistical purposes, I’m a huge failure. But as long as you could support yourself and have a few wins in the process, I think you’re way ahead of the game.

Clay Finck (02:46):

That’s right. So I’m curious, what drove you or inspired you to want to be an entrepreneur? Especially at such a young age.

Jason Saltzman (02:54):

I had a much different mentality than I do now in my early twenties. I did it for the money. I was paper chasing. I wanted to have a great watch and a hot car. I wanted to be popping bottles and do all the things that look great on Instagram before there was even Instagram. And that truly was what motivated me. Matter of fact, my first business, I wanted to monetize immediately so I could take my girlfriend out to a fancy dinner. Just to give you a hint of the mindset. And then it sucked me into the vortex of entrepreneurship. And obviously, as I grew, my mentality changed, but that is where I started.

Clay Finck (03:34):

So you mentioned that you did it for the money mainly early on. And you’ve had some successful businesses. So I would imagine that you’re very well taken care of now. So what is your purpose now that you likely have plenty of money and you don’t have to be doing the things you’re doing now? So dig into that a little bit.

Jason Saltzman (03:53):

I feel like retirement is death and I love what I do now. I’m so intrigued by who I do business with, who I mingle with, the level of thought that goes into each project. I’m super motivated to keep going. So I would never consider myself in a place where I can actually all out retire. It’s just not part of me.

Jason Saltzman (04:13):

But I will tell you that my mindset completely shifted as I grew, as we matured. And entrepreneurship is a steroid shot into your growth. Because if you want a successful business, in my world, it has to be more than money. To get you through the tough times it takes to grow something out of nothing, money can’t be the ultimate motivator. It has to be something much deeper because money and materialistic things are fleeting. And you realize as you go on, you’re really not doing that for yourself. You’re doing it for other people. And these other people really don’t matter in the grand scheme of things. And these are realizations that you grow into as I have grown into them. I’ve been privileged enough to last long enough in this game to learn things like these insights. And they’ve given me this ultimate goal in life, which is less about materialistic items of a gold star, ego-driven wins. And more about deeper, purposeful things like making an impact, and helping others, and feeling the soulfulness and the calmness of being there for somebody that needs your help. And ultimately, that shift in mindset made me more successful in business. So those are some of the things that kind of shifted along the way, that got me where I am today.

Clay Finck (05:40):

As an entrepreneur, I’d imagine that it would be difficult to decide whether you should continue to persevere with a struggling business or try something new. And I feel like you are a good person to ask this. How did you know when it was time to move on from maybe a failing business and try something else? Or maybe you should just continue to stick out? How did you try and figure that out?

Jason Saltzman (06:03):

Well ultimately, I feel that there really is no failure if you wake up in the morning and keep going. Because the lessons you learn along the way are actually the wins that you accumulate over time. And you can never really predict the outcome of projects, right? There are so many other elements. You have to be in the right space at the right time. The market has to receive you properly. You have to get the right funding. You’ve got to get the right attention. Not all those things line up at the same time.

Jason Saltzman (06:35):

So I’ve learned in life, in business to really embrace the process of what I’m learning along the way. And if you’re doing so, you’re basically not treating it as an ultimatum. You’re looking at the market in terms of a science project. And you’re really looking at is the formula working? Am I getting the response that I want? I think what comes along with maturity is picking up those signs faster and with less emotion.

Jason Saltzman (07:03):

Because if you can realize that you’re going in the wrong direction, the quicker you could realize you’re going in the wrong direction, the quicker you could pivot onto something great, and take all those lessons along the way with you.

Clay Finck (07:16):

You mentioned learning from your failures early on. What were some of the biggest lessons you learned from your failures?

Jason Saltzman (07:23):

When I first failed, I have a different answer than today, of course. Today, I would tell you that they weren’t failures at all. They were the market not being receptive towards the project, or they were learning that I couldn’t work with somebody properly, or taking investment from the wrong institution that didn’t align with my values. And they’re all independent lessons that made me stronger.

Jason Saltzman (07:46):

So I would say the biggest lesson out of that as a whole from a macro view is to keep going, because you can’t win unless you keep going. And ultimately, the pain and the suffering along the way there is going to happen. It is an absolute. And that’s something that I feel very strongly about as well is bringing the reality to growing a business. It’s not fun. It’s not all cherries and sunshine. There’s a reality to growing a business where you must go through the hurt locker to win because the road to success is paved with failures. And out of those failures are the lessons you will obtain to ultimately win.

Clay Finck (08:29):

The roads to success are paved with failures. That’s a great quote. I love that.

Jason Saltzman (08:32):

I just like to get it at the top of my head because there’s this misconception I believe, especially with younger entrepreneurs that are just starting out where you see the exits in the media. Somebody started a company, selling it for a billion dollars. That’s so rare. And not only is it rare, but there’s also a story behind that billion-dollar exit that you are not being told. And that story was, I was two weeks away from not making payroll. I got fired from my own job. I couldn’t find somebody to do marketing. I couldn’t get an investor to invest in my business. You don’t hear those stories. And you should, because if you’re getting into this, you should buckle up, because it’s not a smooth ride to the top. It is filled with trials and tribulations, but that’s the beauty of it. And if that gets you excited, this might be for you.

Clay Finck (09:24):

When reading about successful entrepreneurs, it seems like you almost see that rags to riches type story. Steve Jobs starting Apple in his garage, or like you’ve said, Elon Musk not being able to pay his rent. So he sleeps in his office. Do you have any of those types of stories you want to share with the audience as someone that’s just been involved with so many startups?

Jason Saltzman (09:45):

Oh my goodness. Absolutely. I was the horrible couch surfer when I didn’t have enough money to pay rent. I was the beggar of money when I didn’t have any money left. I was the ramen noodle king of New York when I started my co-working space Alley before we made a dollar. That’s what the journey brings you. You are absolutely in the 99.9%, probably in most cases not going to make money right away. So you have to prepare to be without that resource for a while.

Jason Saltzman (10:18):

And ultimately, you learn so much about yourself. And that’s why I tell you it can’t just be about money to get you through those times. It has to be about a deeper purpose. Because if it’s just about money, you’re going to either sell out when you get your first dollar, you’re going to make the wrong decisions. Because most of my monetary decisions are counterintuitive to the grander vision that you want to grow in most cases. So you do have to sell out early and things of that nature. But I was sleeping on my friends’ couches. I was mooching off my family, which I’ve been privileged enough to have access to resources when I just didn’t have any. My life is filled with those stories.

Clay Finck (11:00):

What kind of roles have mentors played in your journey? Whether that be people you connected with in real life or other entrepreneurs that really anyone can learn from.

Jason Saltzman (11:10):

I’ve ultimately been jealous of people that I’ve met in my life that have said, “I talked to my mentor,” or, “I have this great mentor network,” and so on and so forth. I had none of that. Remember, I started my first company before the word startup meant what it does today. It meant like starting a car. So it wasn’t embraced like it is today. It was very foreign. So when I started to do it, even my family, and I understood where they’re coming from. They wanted the best for me. They were like, “What are you doing?” So I really didn’t have any of that to get them support. I didn’t have access to this big network. I didn’t go to college for business school. I wasn’t thrusted in this community of people that was taking risks and doing things. I was a lone gun. So I had to learn on my way. And not only did I have to do it, but I also had to deal with adversity along the way from people challenging me.

Jason Saltzman (12:01):

And ultimately, those became arrows that I put in my quiver to make myself succeed. Every time somebody asked me why I was doing this, or I felt doubt even with myself, I used that as my mentor. Adversity was my mentor. And I know it sounds weird to say, because ultimately there’s all this advice going around that’s like learn from this mentor, or learn from this book, or so on and so forth. I didn’t pick up information like that. I learned by doing. And my motivation came from this deep passion inside me, mostly to prove myself right. That I knew that I could do this, and I could do with the fire, and vigor, and passion to get it done correctly. And that’s been my biggest advocate over the years.

Clay Finck (12:45):

So let’s dig into your background a little bit deeper. You’re currently with Relief, and you started Alley prior to that. Are there any companies before Alley, and maybe dig into what exactly all of those companies do?

Jason Saltzman (13:01):

Well, my first company was a debt company. We were helping consumers out of debt. I built two companies. One I did with partners, and the other one I did on my own because I wanted to change the culture and I knew I needed control. So those were my first two companies. And in the consumer debt space.

Jason Saltzman (13:17):

I pivoted that business over the years into a tech company. I co-founded a company called SeamlessDocs, which had a much different name when we first started. But it pivoted out of all the paperwork we were operating while we were getting people out of debt. There was a lot of paperwork going in and out. So we built a paperwork automation platform, which essentially became SeamlessDocs. The company then pivoted after I had anything to do with it into government form building and helping governments with paperwork, and licensing, and forms online, things like that. And streamlining the process. The company exited in 2020.

Jason Saltzman (13:53):

While that company was venture funding and getting their act together from an operational perspective and from a fiscal perspective, I felt deeply passionate about sharing information about helping other entrepreneurs come together and build together in a collaborative environment. And I was obsessed over what WeWork was doing at the time, and they had only one location when I first started my first space. And we built Alley in Midtown with the ideology of it was coworking. It was paying for a membership. But everybody that came in got support. We built a suite of services to help people build their ideas into reality. And ultimately, that business got the attention of large corporations that wanted to have a path into this demographic that was building new technology, and emerging technology, and things of that nature. And eventually, through a huge partnership with Verizon, we were able to scale the company nationally and make it more of a virtual product, which really helped us through the pandemic.

Jason Saltzman (14:56):

And then, I hired an amazing CEO to run that business where she’s still running it today. And I had the privilege of taking a step back and thinking about what my next steps were, what I really wanted to do. And debt was always on my mind because it was my first step into entrepreneurship. And I learned the space so well, that I knew all of the in-and-out intricacies of helping consumers meticulously. And I always wanted to use and leverage new technology in order to scale the needs of people that were going through toxic debt and the syndrome of toxic debt.

Jason Saltzman (15:32):

And then the pandemic happened, which was a volcano of issue. And the floods of calls started to come in from people from my past asking for help. And that ultimately was my aha moment that I needed to build something that doesn’t exist, not the way the environment is helping people now. It needed to be not better. It needed to be different. And ultimately, that became Relief, a free app that helps people out of toxic credit card debt, totally free. And that’s my next baby. And also, my career has put me in certain privileged positions such as I’m on the board of directors of Florida International University, and as well as I work with the U.S. State Department speaking on various topics across the world.

Clay Finck (16:19):

Very interesting background. So when exactly did you start Relief?

Jason Saltzman (16:24):

That’s a good question because technically I started Relief a year ago in the middle of the pandemic with my two good friends who have a background in engineering, full-stack engineering, and data science. We started doing due diligence a year ago, meaning I’m old enough to know, and I think this is a lesson for everybody that’s out there that’s listening to this, that’s trying to build something right now. Ultimately before you step into the world of getting excited about your project and falling in love, find out the ultimate truths that you can actually do this. That you could validate your assumptions, and you have a really good shot at making something impactful. And that took us a year. Before we told anybody about it in stealth, we didn’t build a business. We didn’t incorporate. We learned truths about the ecosystem. And we built a schematic plan on how we would develop the product that it is today. And ultimately, that became a package that I showed a few investors a year later. And within three weeks, we got a fully funded oversubscribed round of seed capital to validate our assumptions in the real market. Some would say I started it in three weeks, and some would say a year and three weeks. But ultimately, we’re here, and we’re kicking butt.

Clay Finck (17:47):

Yeah. I think that’s very important that you validated that there’s a demand for what you’re creating. I think a lot of people just kind of dive in and might not realize until much later and much time has been invested into the process that there isn’t as much demand as we expected for what you’re working on.

Jason Saltzman (18:06):

Ultimately, one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned along the way is that if you’re going to invest, time is your most valuable asset. And if you’re going to invest your time two, three, five, 10 years into a project, you better have a good idea that you could do this. It’s not just about convincing investors to give you money. You might have access to capital and people think you have a great mind for things. It’s really about validating as much as humanly possible and getting to that edge where you’re like, “All right, well now what do I need? Now that I’ve gotten this far, what do I need?” And I’ve become adept at doing this over the years, which has ultimately benefited me significantly because then validating the next steps becomes that much easier.

Clay Finck (18:50):

So you mentioned you had hired a CEO for Alley. What led you to that decision to walk away from Alley? This business you had built from the ground up, and then just completely start over new with something else.

Jason Saltzman (19:04):

That’s a good question. One of the things I’ve learned over the years as well is you have to be honest with yourself. I know it sounds great to be the CEO of your business for the rest of its life, but sometimes the business grows in a direction that needs something else, and you have to be mature enough to deal with that properly and to face that truth. And I was faced with that truth.

Jason Saltzman (19:24):

Ultimately when Verizon came in, I knew that the level of service that they needed to create the products and services that they paid for, and continuously paid for, and created value for them, that I needed somebody to run that type of business. I wasn’t equipped at doing that. It’s sort of doing checks and balances over the things that are your strengths and weaknesses, and working with one of the largest companies in the world on a consistent basis. It’s not my passion, and it’s not my superpower, right? So I become very adept at knowing that.

Jason Saltzman (19:59):

Then it became like, “Okay, what am I missing?” And that’s become my search to find the CEO. It’s like, “What am I not?” And she’s everything that I’m not, which has the capability of being super about helping the largest companies in the world innovate with community-driven innovation, which is ultimately what she does. I myself am much more passionate about something early and something that I know I can make a lot of change doing in the early stages.

Clay Finck (20:28):

Whether it be with Alley, or with Relief, or one of your other businesses, how sure were you in the early days of starting them that they would eventually play out the way they did? Did doubt ever creep in when things were difficult?

Jason Saltzman (20:43):

Every day. Today I doubt, yesterday I doubted. Every day. Doubt is a very common feeling. And ultimately, we’re proving ourselves every day through that doubt. Because every day you make it through that doubt, you prove to yourself that you can.

Jason Saltzman (21:01):

And I love Al Pacino’s speech in Any Given Sunday. It’s like the best speech ever that’s underrated. It’s like watch that movie, watch that speech. He talks about football as a game of inches. And I ultimately see entrepreneurship the same way. And life is a game of inches, as long as you’re moving forward. Even if you take steps back, to take steps forward. you’re ultimately going towards winning. And over and over again, I learned that. And the doubt, there’s a stigma on doubt. It’s like you can’t dismiss doubt. Because if you embrace it, it could be your most powerful tool towards success. And that’s what I’ve learned.

Clay Finck (21:45):

What advice would you give to an “on entrepreneur” that is wondering if running a business is for them or not, that feels that doubt, and they’re wondering is this for me? Maybe I should go to something more safe and secure. What would you tell them?

Jason Saltzman (21:59):

Well, I would tell them welcome to the club. Congratulations. Now it’s your choice whether or not to move forward. And if you want an algorithm towards success, know that every single successful entrepreneur on the planet did one thing. They had one thing in common. They kept going. So through that doubt that you face right now, and through that adversity that you’re going through right now, are you going to stop, or are you going to keep going? Because if you’re going to keep going, you’re in the company of everyone that’s been successful ever.

Clay Finck (22:37):

What are some of the issues that you believe should be discussed more around entrepreneurship that aren’t currently being discussed?

Jason Saltzman (22:45):

I’m so happy you asked that, Clay. One, mental health. Because I feel like there’s a false sense of reality when it comes to growing a business that doesn’t take into consideration the hardships. And ultimately, the problem with that aspect being a reality is that you’re setting your mindset up for failure. And one in three Americans has some sort of mental ailment, right? Whether it be like myself, I suffer from general anxiety disorder. Whether it be any other ADHD-related symptom. And when you’re making false claims like, “Entrepreneurship is great. You could be your boss.” When you start going down that path and having those mental health issues, the adversity that you face is even that much harder. And if you could just destigmatize what it really is like to grow a business, look, it’s going to be hard. It’s not going to come out the way you want. But ultimately, the lessons you learn along the way, that’s the gift to you. If we could just have that narrative, that helps ease anxiety. I know it does for me. I’m not speaking for everyone, because everyone’s got a different level of ailment.

Jason Saltzman (23:54):

But that being said, we need to tell the truth about what it’s really like to grow a business. And we need to do it in a way where we accept the understanding that it’s not always going to come out perfect. And it’s okay to feel depressed. That’s the norm. If you feel uncomfortable, then you’re going in the right direction.

Clay Finck (24:12):

I’m not one really to speak on depression. But as far as anxiety and just having this large workload, how did you help relieve that? I’m someone that is a huge fan of someone that takes care of their body. Eat nutritious foods, get enough sleep, take enough breaks during the day if you need it. Kind of listen to your body as you go. So what are some things that really helped you as an entrepreneur and just all the stresses you’ve been through in that journey?

Jason Saltzman (24:39):

That’s great. All that, what you said. Remain healthy, balanced diet, everything matters on that level. Ultimately, it’s going to be the barometer for how you feel and what you do about it.

Jason Saltzman (24:52):

But for me, my actionable moments around my anxiety have always been a few things. One, it’s to be overly prepared. Because again, the fear of failing, the fear of screwing up, the fear of this conversation going south, and me saying something stupid. I got to take a step back and say, “What do I want to talk about today? What do I want to think about?” That ultimately eases my mind.

Jason Saltzman (25:14):

But the biggest thing for me that I’ve learned about myself is helping others. Putting my 100% forward to help others and that feeling of calmness that I get ultimately by helping others succeed in whatever that looks like gets rid of my anxiety automatically. So at my peak of anxiousness, I always ask myself one question. What am I doing right now to help the person that’s in front of my face? And sometimes that could be me, like being nicer to myself, saying something nice to myself. And most of the time it’s with people like you, how do I make this an interesting conversation for you and for everybody else that’s listening? If I think about that and I just focus on the value I’m creating, my anxiety dissipates.

Clay Finck (26:03):

I’m curious, were you a big goal setter as you went along? How do you push yourself to continue to push for those new highs and just those new achievements? How do you think about that?

Jason Saltzman (26:15):

I don’t. I know that I want to get to a great place. I know it sounds weird. I’m not a big KPI veteran. And this is ultimately a weakness I have in business, creating KPIs and things like that. Because I’m not more of a qualitative person, I go more on feel. So my ultimate KPI is am I enjoying myself? Am I learning? Not just enjoying myself, but am I learning something right now? Even if it sucks. Even if I’m not, I’m going to go take this back. Even if I’m not enjoying myself, what am I learning at this moment? And ultimately, those become my minor goals to get over. Right?

Jason Saltzman (26:52):

And again, in the game of inches, which is life, which is in business, which Al Pacino put in football, as long as you keep moving forward, you’re in the company of successful folks.

Clay Finck (27:04):

Yeah. It reminds me of just the fact that there is no one right way to do things. Some people might work better having those goals, but you’re someone, it’s like it’s your personality to just be like, “Go, go, go.” You kind of go with your gut, go with your feelings. And that’s kind of what’s led you down this sporadic that you’ve been through. Just all these different types of businesses.

Jason Saltzman (27:27):

That’s right. I mean look. Ultimately, if you ask people what they want to do when they grow up, interesting people at 20 years old say, “I don’t know,” very interesting people at 30 say, “I don’t know.” And the most interesting people in the world at 40, 50 years old say, “I don’t know.” And that’s what’s great about what we do. You never know where you’re going. You never know where it could take you. So you can hop around from project to project. You can have a realistic view on if things are working or not. Like to answer your question from earlier, you could pivot at the right time, which ultimately comes with maturity. But again, if you keep going, you are in the company of winners.

Clay Finck (28:05):

So back to the companies you’ve worked with, your first company was Alley, which helps connect large businesses with startups. And the business you’re working with now is the Relief App, which helps people take care of their consumer debt. What led you to make this sort of transition between two vastly different industries? And what advice would you give to someone trying to go from one industry to another?

Jason Saltzman (28:30):

As starting a business, ultimately you have one responsibility that is on top of all the other responsibilities, which is finding truths. And if you could find enough truths in the problem you’re trying to solve, it doesn’t matter what industry it is. If your truth is real, you then have enough backing to go to market. And then it ultimately becomes your passion and your willingness, and your resilience to actually make it a reality, right? Because you got to sell the world on what you’re doing, and you have to do it in a way where you could get investors if you need them, team members if you need them, co-founders if you need them to follow your vision down the path. But I really don’t think it matters what industry. It matters what truths you can learn about. And that can happen in a variety of different ways, right? We could find truths in our everyday lives, and we can find truths just by being exposed to something very different.

Jason Saltzman (29:27):

Early on, I had the benefit of building my first debt businesses. So I learned a lot of truths then that still stayed the same today. One of those truths being– if you close your eyes and think about a company that helps people get out of debt, you don’t think, not one company comes to mind. Right? The other thing is when you think about companies that get people out of debt, you think of all the scams that are out there and all the companies that take advantage of people. It’s got a very negative gravity type of space. There isn’t an app. There’s an app that does everything. There’s an app that could pick you up at your doorstep and bring you to the airport. There’s an app that can book your plane. There’s an app that could book your food. Why isn’t there an app that can help you through some of the tough financial times you have in your life when there’s an app for every banking product known to humanity?

Jason Saltzman (30:15):

So ultimately, these are the truths that we find ourselves in, and we do our best to uncover these truths. And it, regardless of the industry or how you are exposed to it, brings a pathway forward.

Clay Finck (30:28):

So the Relief App helps consumers get out of debt. How exactly does it do that?

Jason Saltzman (30:35):

The app does two things. One side of the app is a negotiator. So a lot of people don’t know this, but if you actually have a hardship paying off your debt, toxic debt, specifically unsecured consumer debt such as credit card debt, the debt loses value. And there’s a deal to be made. So the app automatically walks a user through the process of negotiating that debt down to what’s called a net present value. And it does it by doing two different things. It communicates with your creditor, and it also learns through machine learning and AI how different creditors work and what their policies are. And ultimately, we go to that creditor with not just one account, we can go with thousands of accounts, which is called collective bargaining. When you can get a great deal with a bunch of consumers, a community of folks that benefit each individual significantly. That’s the power of what we’re doing behind the negotiating. And the other side is a lending tool for people that are in different circumstances that aren’t falling behind, that don’t have a hardship, that just want to save money.

Clay Finck (31:38):

So how does this tie to your mission of being an entrepreneur driven by social impact?

Jason Saltzman (31:46):

It helps millions of people through one of the most horrible times in their life that doesn’t need to be so horrible. When it comes down to it, debt is a math problem. It becomes a psychological problem when you’re hiding it from your significant other, when you’re not answering the phone when you’re hiding from your mailbox from those bad letters that people get when they fall behind. And it becomes such a stigma that unfortunately, the data shows us that people are killing themselves over it. And divorce rates in America are running rampant due to financial issues. We ultimately feel like this doesn’t have to be the case. So through entrepreneurship, we could solve this problem. Through finding truths, we could solve this problem. If you just put your best foot forward and you care about people and what they’re going through, and you have the resources the way we do luckily, you’re going to figure it out. And ultimately what we figured out is that we can help millions of people. And as an entrepreneur who has anxiety who loves helping people, who are hell-bent on creating an impact before I die, this is what we can do with this project.

Clay Finck (32:52):

Yeah. I would say creating an app that helps people with their debt in today’s day and age is definitely making a positive impact on society. Just with this low-interest-rate environment, people are incentivized to take on more and more debt. The crazy mortgages, whether it be credit cards and spending for the holidays and things like that. That’s definitely something that society could use.

Jason Saltzman (33:15):

Yeah, we see it. And when you start to see who’s impacted, and how they were impacted, and how they’re feeling right now about being impacted. And you start to learn things like people are making minimum payments instead of feeding their kids, and they’re skipping meals because of it. And that money goes into interest. It’s a horrible realization, and we are absolutely against this. And we want to rehabilitate these people into a better scenario automatically without pain, without suffering, just like hailing a car.

Clay Finck (33:49):

Tell us about what you have discovered with the millennial debt crisis, and what are some tips you have for millennials in preventing their debt from becoming too big of a problem?

Jason Saltzman (34:01):

That’s a great question. Well first off, the problem is growing every single day, and that’s what we’ve learned. It’s not going anywhere. That’s how we know there are no solutions that are fitting the needs of people. Because the problem is exponentially growing by the second. That’s a realization that we all need to face.

Jason Saltzman (34:21):

Two things I would tell people to avoid this. Number one, if you have the ability, if you’re going to use credit cards because they’re definitely what we call a necessary evil in life to get good credit, to have opportunity moving forward. There’s good credit and there’s bad credit. Good credit is something that you’re putting towards your future. You’re investing in a house or something of that nature, or a business, and things like that. Bad toxic debt is when you get into the scenario of paying for things that really don’t mean anything. And you don’t have enough money to pay that bill at the end of the month. So you’re stuck paying 29%, or the average in America today is 19.98% interest every single month compounded, which could significantly put you at a disadvantage. And when you start doing the numbers, your $25,000 purchase can easily become half a million dollars over the course of a lifetime. That being said, if you can’t pay it off at the end of the month, don’t buy it. That’s my best advice.

Jason Saltzman (35:20):

But, most people are too far. One in three Americans right now are falling behind on their bills. That being said, for those of you who are out there that are going through this, know that you’re not alone, and there are solutions, and you don’t need to pay a company to get out of debt. You could do it on your own. Debt is a math problem. And I know it doesn’t solve all the problems in front of your face from an emotional perspective. But for me, knowing that I’m not alone makes me feel better, because it makes me feel like I didn’t make this choice because the reality is that these systems that are built today, there’s a reason why they don’t teach you credit card usage in high school. There’s a reason why a credit card company would issue you $50,000 of credit only making $25,000 a year. That’s how they make money.

Jason Saltzman (36:08):

So ultimately, it’s not just a series of bad decisions on your part. It’s the way the system is set up. So feel less bad about your situation. You’re not a bad person if you got yourself into this problem.

Clay Finck (36:20):

Yeah. There are a lot of really good points that you mentioned there. I think when it comes to tackling debt, I think having a budget or just setting up some sort of spreadsheet that just shows here’s the money you bring in a month. Here are the typical expenses you have in a month. And that gives you an idea of just your financial picture. You spent X amount of dollars in the last month. Are you making enough to cover that? And just see the big picture and realize, “Okay, are my spending decisions in line with the money that I’m making?”

Jason Saltzman (36:51):

We write a blog called the D-word because we’re basically destigmatizing the debt word. And we just talked about this. Again, money is an algorithm. It’s a math problem. And the better you are at seeing your full truth, your full pictures, the more you’re going to avoid issues.

Clay Finck (37:10):

So where are you going to take Relief into the future? Are you just looking to grow in this existing market that you’re in while it’s still early, or are there new markets that you’re looking to enter as well?

Jason Saltzman (37:23):

It’s still early. It’s so early, but I will tell you this. We are beating our goals. It’s unbelievable. The sad truth, the unfortunate fortunate is that we are right. The good news is we’re on our way to helping millions of people.

Jason Saltzman (37:38):

Where we take it is outside the United States. Right now, we’re only equipped from a compliance perspective to deal inside the United States. And we are getting hit up outside the United States. So probably in the next year or two, we would scale into different countries so we could start helping folks that need help. As big as the world is, the internet makes it a smaller place. So when we launched and people found out what we were doing, we realized how much we validated this problem not only as an American problem but outside our country as well. So we’d really love to meet the needs of these folks as well.

Clay Finck (38:13):

So whether it be a mortgage, a car loan, student loan, credit card debt, is there a specific type of consumer Relief is catered towards? Or is it anyone with any level of debt?

Jason Saltzman (38:25):

Our initial two products that we have are catered towards people that need to get out of making minimum payments. The negotiator isn’t for everybody. It’s for people that are either behind on their bills or about to fall behind. It is an alternative to bankruptcy, and that doesn’t apply to everyone. So we actually have an approval process that meets that criteria to go down that path.

Jason Saltzman (38:49):

The other product is to save money on interest, and it’s still somebody that’s facing a little bit of hardship that can’t pay this off at the end of the month. And the bills have mounted in a way where they’re making interest payments, and they want to save money towards interest.

Jason Saltzman (39:04):

So I would say that it’s for the 99% of Americans right now that fall into some sort of financial issue. We are not for the ultra rich. We are not for the ultra wealthy, that we will not see them coming to Relief for anything.

Clay Finck (39:20):

At the end of each episode, we have a segment called the action plan. In this segment of the show, we ask the guests three questions that can create an action plan for listeners to do when they’re done with this episode. So the first question is which habit or principle do you follow in your life that has had a big impact on your success that not enough people do, but should?

Jason Saltzman (39:43):

I think it’s one, accept failure as a lesson. And keep going. I know that seems like two, but it’s actually one. Because once you accept failure as a lesson, you’re going to learn that lesson and you’re going to keep going. Again, if you keep going, you are in the company of very successful people.

Clay Finck (40:01):

What has been the most influential book in your life? It doesn’t have to be your favorite one, just one that had a huge impact on you.

Jason Saltzman (40:09):

The Obstacle Is The Way written by Ryan Holiday is so important to me. It validated a lot of the things that I was thinking inside, but it put a framework to it and a historic framework to it around stoicism. But essentially looking at problems in front of you as not obstacles, but beautiful lessons that you will learn while getting over that obstacle. That book changed my life.

Clay Finck (40:34):

I’m really glad you mentioned that book. I’m a huge fan of that one. [It] kind of clicks that light bulb on the struggles you run into in your life, if you frame it as something positive and something that’s making you a better individual and allowing you to help others along the way as well, it’s just a very powerful way of thinking of things.

Jason Saltzman (40:56):

Absolutely. It’s just a shift of mindset. Because the truth is Clay, you’re going to walk outside your house and you’re going to run into 50 problems. It’s a universal truth. So you either could let that beat you up, or realize that while you’re facing these problems, you’re your best self, and you’re learning. And if you could be conscious of that, it actually makes horrible situations very interesting.

Clay Finck (41:22):

The trials, and tribulations, and struggles of life are an inevitable piece of the journey.

Jason Saltzman (41:28):

Totally.

Clay Finck (41:29):

When this episode is over before the listener quickly jumps to the next podcast queued up in their podcast player, what is one action they should take that can improve their life, career, or business?

Jason Saltzman (41:41):

Be nicer to yourself. If we treated other people the way we treat ourselves, we wouldn’t have any friends. Why don’t you pay respect for the person that you’re going to be with through thick and thin, guaranteed a universal truth for the rest of your life? Look yourself in the mirror at least once a week and tell yourself how great you are because you are. People don’t do that enough. And doing at has helped me build confidence to accomplish amazing things. And that’s why I’m here talking to you today.

Clay Finck (42:20):

Jason, thank you so much for coming to the show. I really appreciate it. For our listeners that would like to learn more about you, where can they go to connect with you?

Jason Saltzman (42:30):

So I’m on Twitter @SaltzmanJason I’m on TikTok now. Getting down TikTok @saltzmanjason. And I put a lot of content out on both platforms. And on Instagram, I actually got my name the right way. It’s @jasonsaltzman. And DM me. If you have any problems with debt, you want to learn about growing a business, if something I said today motivated you and you want to know more, I, please, encourage you. Please reach out to me. I get more out of helping you than probably you get out of my help.

Clay Finck (43:00):

We’ll be sure to put the links to get connected with Jason in the show notes for anyone that is interested. Jason, thanks again for coming on.

Jason Saltzman (43:08):

It’s my pleasure, Clay. Thanks for having me.

Clay Finck (43:10):

All right, everybody. I hope you enjoyed today’s episode. Please go ahead and follow on your favorite podcast app so you can get these episodes delivered automatically. And if you haven’t already done so, be sure to check out our website theinvestorspodcast.com. There you’ll find all of our episodes, some educational resources we have, as well as some tools you can use as an investor. And with that, we’ll see you again next time.

Outro (43:33):

Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to subscribe to We Study Billionaires by The Investor’s Podcast Network. Every Wednesday, we teach you about Bitcoin, and every Saturday we study billionaires and the financial markets. To access our show notes, transcripts, or courses, go to theinvestorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any decision, consult a professional. This show is copyrighted by The Investor’s Podcast Network. Written permission must be granted before syndication or rebroadcasting.